Urban Development and Proposals Discussion

[DougB]

There is definitely no such statute. I think a lot of environmental lawyers are surprised the government hasn't taken legal action yet.

If I recall correctly, going after Domtar may not be worth the cost as it has no assets in Alberta. A judgement from an Alberta court would be difficult to enforce in Quebec.

Always questioned why the City uses that site as a snow dump. Not only would the runoff end up in the river, wouldn’t ground seepage potentially worsen spread of the contamination? The other snow dump by the northern approach of the Calf Rope bridge at least sets back from the river. I would have thought snow dumps would drain into settling ponds and undergo treatment.

 

[Alex_YYC]

Canals would be tough without building a weir on the Bow

It could be done without a weir on the Bow but would need a weir of some sort at the downstream end of the canal.

 

[DougB]

It could be done without a weir on the Bow but would need a weir of some sort at the downstream end of the canal.

Pump water from the river?

 

[Disraeli]

If I recall correctly, going after Domtar may not be worth the cost as it has no assets in Alberta. A judgement from an Alberta court would be difficult to enforce in Quebec.

Provinces have legislation which allows courts to enforce judgements from other provinces

 

[Urban Outdoorsman]

A couple years ago a proposal was put forward to redevelop the land on the east side of the 14th street hill nw.

It was tabled for a while but it looks like its back on

DMAP

 

[Surrealplaces]

I had forgotten all about that site. Glad to see it's back in play again.

 

[Mountain Man]

Always questioned why the City uses that site as a snow dump. Not only would the runoff end up in the river, wouldn’t ground seepage potentially worsen spread of the contamination? The other snow dump by the northern approach of the Calf Rope bridge at least sets back from the river. I would have thought snow dumps would drain into settling ponds and undergo treatment.

The Creosote is buried and protected with a concrete wall to prevent it from spreading apparently. I'm positive I can smell it riding by there on the bike path sometimes so I'm not 100% confident in their containment.

If we can hold Domtar liable then we should 100% go after them, not only to get it cleaned up but to set a precedent!

 

[MichaelS]

When did the concrete containment get put in? I thought some of the creosote seeped under the river and was being detected in basements in Hillhurst?
Oh, never mind, some googling found the Alberta Government page, which confirmed containment was constructed in 1995, after seeping over to Hillhurst:

Contaminant management – Former Canada Creosote plant site (Calgary)

The Alberta government has taken lead, in monitoring contamination in the Bow River and in communities on the North side of the Bow River.

www.alberta.ca

 

[DougB]

When did the concrete containment get put in? I thought some of the creosote seeped under the river and was being detected in basements in Hillhurst
Oh, never mind, some googling found the Alberta Government page, which confirmed containment was constructed in 1995, after seeping over to Hillhurst:

Contaminant management – Former Canada Creosote plant site (Calgary)

The Alberta government has taken lead, in monitoring contamination in the Bow River and in communities on the North side of the Bow River.

www.alberta.ca

1995 sounds correct. The bike path was closed for several years and reopened in 1996. The metal railing along the river is part of the containment barrier

 

[Mountain Man]

When did the concrete containment get put in? I thought some of the creosote seeped under the river and was being detected in basements in Hillhurst?
Oh, never mind, some googling found the Alberta Government page, which confirmed containment was constructed in 1995, after seeping over to Hillhurst:

Contaminant management – Former Canada Creosote plant site (Calgary)

The Alberta government has taken lead, in monitoring contamination in the Bow River and in communities on the North side of the Bow River.

www.alberta.ca

According to the link you provided, the containment was installed in 1995, city took over management in 1997. You can see the site on streetview immediately west of Pumphouse Theater https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.0455...fWYmx8blrOrnxeQVhn_A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

They can 100% detect it in Sunnyside and Hillhurst, but the levels are not dangerous so long as people don't drink groundwater. I doubt there are any wells in those communities still, but you never know.

 

[DougB]

The Creosote is buried and protected with a concrete wall to prevent it from spreading apparently. I'm positive I can smell it riding by there on the bike path sometimes so I'm not 100% confident in their containment.

If we can hold Domtar liable then we should 100% go after them, not only to get it cleaned up but to set a precedent!

Wouldn’t runoff from the snow dump make containment more challenging?

 

[Disraeli]

The Creosote is buried and protected with a concrete wall to prevent it from spreading apparently. I'm positive I can smell it riding by there on the bike path sometimes so I'm not 100% confident in their containment.

If we can hold Domtar liable then we should 100% go after them, not only to get it cleaned up but to set a precedent!

It would be a landmark case in environmental liability. It has Supreme Court of Canada written all over it.

 

[Mountain Man]

Wouldn’t runoff from the snow dump make containment more challenging?

If I had to guess, I would assume that a thick layer of clay or some other material that prevents water from penetrating that deep. Over that they likely have a drainage layer then a few feet of top soil. The layer with the contamination is supposed to be protected with concrete walls to prevent any more creosote from getting out as well. I don't know the specifics, just what I remember when this was first discussed on SSP when CalgaryNext came out and what I've read in the media, so this is about all I know / remember.

 

[JonnyCanuck]

It would be a landmark case in environmental liability. It has Supreme Court of Canada written all over it.

I highly doubt that after all these years, the City would be successful in getting a judgement against Domtar who inherited the problem from the previous company. If they thought they could, they would have tried by now. Why wait??
When the Flames announced their arena project in West Village a few years back, the reclamation was flagged as an over & above cost. I don't remember any conclusion on who would pay for it.

 

[darwink]

It would be a landmark case in environmental liability. It has Supreme Court of Canada written all over it.

Isn’t the question whether the liability follows through bankruptcies and restructuring and such? I know the recent case moved environmental liabilities up the claim precedence list, but unless the liability was listed at some point during one of the restructuring processes at some point the liability has to no longer exist. I bet all of Domtar’s similar ‘liabilities’ that former parts of it created all over North America add up to way more than the ~$2 billion the company is worth today.