Office Space Conversion

[Surrealplaces]

I tend to think of office buildings lofts and the warehouse lofts as two different endeavours. Both are loft conversions but also different.

Warehouses definitely offer all those things you mentioned, exposed brick, beams, and historical significance, charm and character. For me the idea of converting an office space in a 60's-70's high-rise is a different niche market.....one that doesn't really exist yet, but could. The conversion I envision would be a very modern look or a modern-industrial look, with lots of window space, potentially lots of color. Basically a similar type of decor you'd see in a modern upscale restaurant. You can do that in an old warehouse too, but in an old warehouse I feel like the decor is limited as you don't want to take away from the buildings assets, like the exposed brick wall, etc, you want to tie into them. You can go modern, but limited. With the office space conversion I envision doing virtually anything you want, as you're dealing with a space that doesn't have character to begin with. Just an open space with lots of open window space and a great view.

As for sales, my idea of office conversions would have to a mixed use scenario where some floors are office and some are residential. A 25 story office tower for example converts 7 floors of space to residential, and converts more as required. It's quite complex to do that it this point, but could still be done.

 

[MJC]

@Surrealplaces Milner's (streetview) floorplate above the podium level is 80'x210'. You have 30' from the core (width) and the heights from the core are 40' on one side and 25' on the other side. Really challenging dimensions to reallocate. My rough look at it was 60-65% efficiency per floor. But the plans look really awkward. You are a little too stubby with 30' from the core (by my understanding) as you need to put in a hallway so you end up with awkward 25' deep units (seen in ~520 sf sizes).

It's a problem for someone who wants to go ground-up on the building, most likely and deal with the asbestos problem. I read the ESA and it's ugly (full floor abatements). So conversion could be a serious nightmare.

My wingnut idea for office space conversion downtown is actually conversion to automated parkade with activated ground floor retail. I'm not thinking a ton a buildings, like one or two C-, 50,000-80,000 SF buildings.

I talked to a structural engineer buddy of mine and it is theoretically possible, I got the idea reading Canadian Parking Association article here:

Load capacity for parking structures is relatively light compared to other uses – it is only 2.4 kPa compared to 2.4 kPa (live load) plus 1.0 kPa (partitions) for an office building, and a minimum of 4.8 kPa for retail structures. This is where these structures struggle to be easily adapted for other uses.​

I haven't been living in a cave, I'm aware of driverless cars , my reasoning for the demand of this is:

• improve the urban realm by reducing circulation downtown
• drastic efficiency improvements (cars per SF)
• Calgary has the 2nd highest parking in North America, if it doesn't pencil here it won't pencil anywhere (there are hundreds of automatic garages in Europe and overseas)
• Parkades don't have to look like parkades and can activate the street (ULI)
• In terms of some basic transportation economics, cars and roads are likely to remain the most effective means to move people in Calgary for some time. C Train helps but at $50 - $200 million per km, it will be a slog. I like gondolas in some locations, but it's still in the $20 - $50 million per km range. Reality is that we are not going to stop treating roads and road infrastructure as a bundled good or start paying people who bike or take public transportation.
• ~75-80% of Calgary grow is still going to suburbs, no serious political will for this to change. Developers are not at a point where they can afford to put down track for C Train or other permanent public transportation other than a bus sign (hope I'm wrong here)
• Driverless cars will create four rushhours per day, elevating peak hour demand (rush automatic cars in and out in both morning and evening)

 

[darwink]

Hmm. Cost per spot?

Yeah, as for apartments, the fit isn't awesome. lots of big one bedrooms save for the corners. The square one that was converted in edmonton last cycle also has oversized units due to the layout (click the floorplan tab).
For example, for Milner's floorplate:

 

[Surrealplaces]

Thanks for all of this info. I've always known that there is a fair amount of complexity and challenges, but it's hard to get any real info on these things. I've been thinking that if building space could be purchased at something like $40-$70 that it would be a good candidate for an open concept 2,000-3,000 sq ft loft style dwelling. Getting the space at $40 psf isn't easy for a decent building that's class B or C but not too old. Maybe if Calgary's office space vacancy stays up around 20-30% for an extended period of time, who knows.

Of course even with a price of $40 a square foot for the space, there are still other challenges. Building code, HVAC and some others, but I still think it may be possible some day. Here's hoping.

I've never considered the idea of converting to an automated parking garage, but the idea makes sense. It really isn't that far fetched. I've seen buildings in NYC converted to that use, so it definitely can be done, and probably less challenges than trying to do it for residential.

@Surrealplaces Milner's (streetview) floorplate above the podium level is 80'x210'. You have 30' from the core (width) and the heights from the core are 40' on one side and 25' on the other side. Really challenging dimensions to reallocate. My rough look at it was 60-65% efficiency per floor. But the plans look really awkward. You are a little too stubby with 30' from the core (by my understanding) as you need to put in a hallway so you end up with awkward 25' deep units (seen in ~520 sf sizes).

It's a problem for someone who wants to go ground-up on the building, most likely and deal with the asbestos problem. I read the ESA and it's ugly (full floor abatements). So conversion could be a serious nightmare.

My wingnut idea for office space conversion downtown is actually conversion to automated parkade with activated ground floor retail. I'm not thinking a ton a buildings, like one or two C-, 50,000-80,000 SF buildings.

I talked to a structural engineer buddy of mine and it is theoretically possible, I got the idea reading Canadian Parking Association article here:

Load capacity for parking structures is relatively light compared to other uses – it is only 2.4 kPa compared to 2.4 kPa (live load) plus 1.0 kPa (partitions) for an office building, and a minimum of 4.8 kPa for retail structures. This is where these structures struggle to be easily adapted for other uses.​

I haven't been living in a cave, I'm aware of driverless cars , my reasoning for the demand of this is:

• improve the urban realm by reducing circulation downtown
• drastic efficiency improvements (cars per SF)
• Calgary has the 2nd highest parking in North America, if it doesn't pencil here it won't pencil anywhere (there are hundreds of automatic garages in Europe and overseas)
• Parkades don't have to look like parkades and can activate the street (ULI)
• In terms of some basic transportation economics, cars and roads are likely to remain the most effective means to move people in Calgary for some time. C Train helps but at $50 - $200 million per km, it will be a slog. I like gondolas in some locations, but it's still in the $20 - $50 million per km range. Reality is that we are not going to stop treating roads and road infrastructure as a bundled good or start paying people who bike or take public transportation.
• ~75-80% of Calgary grow is still going to suburbs, no serious political will for this to change. Developers are not at a point where they can afford to put down track for C Train or other permanent public transportation other than a bus sign (hope I'm wrong here)
• Driverless cars will create four rushhours per day, elevating peak hour demand (rush automatic cars in and out in both morning and evening)

 

[JonnyCanuck]

Well, maybe someone is reading this thread.....
https://developmentmap.calgary.ca/#property/DP2017-3161

This building:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.0471193,-114.0762379,3a,75y,276.31h,112.54t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sFhy6amDe9dSrQR6lFHiw_w!2e0!6s//geo2.ggpht.com/cbk?panoid=Fhy6amDe9dSrQR6lFHiw_w&output=thumbnail&cb_client=maps_sv.tactile.gps&thumb=2&w=203&h=100&yaw=12.725911&pitch=0&thumbfov=100!7i13312!8i6656

Looks like this conversion is moving forward, a company out of Winnipeg called Marwest Group is going to be managing it.

 

[UrbanWarrior]

Looks like this conversion is moving forward, a company out of Winnipeg called Marwest Group is going to be managing it.

That's excellent news! Being right at a station, on the Downtown Free-Fare Zone no less, will be a huge selling point for this development.

Hopefully this will spur the city to revitalize that green space right across the street too.

 

[MichaelS]

I don't think The City owns that green space. Can anyone confirm?

 

[MJC]

Automation apparently $15-25k/ stall. It's on my research list but a little lower down.

I know Square One. Great views on Bellamy Hill, I think that was Procura?

 

[MJC]

Looks like this conversion is moving forward, a company out of Winnipeg called Marwest Group is going to be managing it.

This is Sierra Place? $160k per unit 100 units

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/rea...e-spaces-for-residential-use/article36029264/

 

[count0]

That's a great location in the CBD, right next to the LRT, a couple of blocks from Stephen Ave, some good places to eat nearby, close to the courthouse park, +15 connection. Will be cool to see how it turns out.

 

[JonnyCanuck]

That's excellent news! Being right at a station, on the Downtown Free-Fare Zone no less, will be a huge selling point for this development.

Hopefully this will spur the city to revitalize that green space right across the street too.

These will be rentals but it should fill up fast for those same reasons.

 

[Surrealplaces]

This is Sierra Place? $160k per unit 100 units

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/rea...e-spaces-for-residential-use/article36029264/

That is indeed the one.

 

[Cowtown]

The Sierra Place conversion will be nice. Let's hope it's successful, and can spur on a few more conversions.

 

[MJC]

Anyone know about this: "An innovative project in Calgary’s southwest beltline district is the planned conversion of the Stephenson Block at the corner of 11th Avenue and 11th Street into a rental apartment block.

Strategic believes there is a strong demand in the area for more residential so is preparing to repurpose and rename the seven-storey office tower located across from the busy Midtown Co-op store."

Source: http://calgaryherald.com/business/real-estate/parker-strategic-helps-cmha-with-new-home

What a beast. 61,925 SF. OE of $17.73, no wonder they need to convert. Good parking ratio, 1 stall per 567 SF. 7 stories. Likely 65 - 80 units would be my guess. (Link on building). Strategic was foreshadowing this at the RE forum this year. Nice conversion for the spot.

On a side note, I can't believe they got AHS to sign up to rent the CN Tower in Edmonton. 55,000 SF. Huge deal. Should be something cool in the works there too.

 

[JonnyCanuck]

The Stephenson, Barron and Place 926 are the (3) planned office conversion by Strategic Group. There is also a new build by Intergulf Cidex coming for the NW corner of 11th & 11th. Also a purpose rental. Together with the Metropolitan, that will be lots of residential on that block.