Calgary's Homeless

[Atticus]

Unfortunately stiffer jail times for dealers won't help. IMO they should give out stiffer sentences, as these people are knowingly helping to ruin others, but it still won't solve the issue. Drugs continue to be sold in countries where people are put to death for trafficking. They really need to address the issue of addiction and how people get on them in the first place.

 

[DiscoStu]

I’m by no means an expert on this, so I’m sure some of this is naive or has already been tried, but my suggestions:

1) In the short term, I think we need 90s Giuliani-style NYC clean up/enforcement that takes back the streets, to show everyone that rule of law still applies and that we’re not ok with turning into Vancouver/Portland. No handing out drug paraphernalia, allowing open drug-use in the streets, no tent cities of any kind, and no letting thieves commit crime over and over without legal consequences. The emphasis needs to be on public safety and rule of law. If this means more cops on the streets and more people in jail, so be it.... we need to start prioritizing law-abiding citizens and businesses, not junkies and dealers. Obviously there is a cost to this, but I think we’re at the stage where we need it.

2) Primary focus on prevention and early-stage intervention. This may sound heartless, but just like with obesity, at some stage it becomes a lost cause to try to change. Let’s put heavy focus on the front end of the curve to try to prevent it happening in the first place, or to help people before they get out of control. For the latter, let’s help as much as we can with rehab, housing, jobs etc…but with concrete targets and goals to live up to. I imagine most people want to get in a better situation, so let’s help them. But there also need to be consequences for those who refuse to, or re-offend. If you commit a crime and refuse help, you need to be punished for that.

3) I think we need to find a way to move away from the DIC Ghetto model. Perhaps we need to setup a few smaller-scale countryside rehab farms or centers, where people can get back on their feet far from the temptation of the streets. A setting that puts emphasis on work, treatment, and self-reflection in a completely different setting than the cold hard streets. A Heartland for addicts?!

4) We probably need to start bringing back more dedicated mental institutions for the people on the extreme end. We got rid of the asylums because we saw them as inhumane, but I’m not sure it’s any more humane to let people who are on a completely different planet mentally wander the streets alone, being a danger to themselves and to the public.

 

[Silence&Motion]

1) In the short term, I think we need 90s Giuliani-style NYC clean up/enforcement that takes back the streets, to show everyone that rule of law still applies and that we’re not ok with turning into Vancouver/Portland. No handing out drug paraphernalia, allowing open drug-use in the streets, no tent cities of any kind, and no letting thieves commit crime over and over without legal consequences. The emphasis needs to be on public safety and rule of law. If this means more cops on the streets and more people in jail, so be it.... we need to start prioritizing law-abiding citizens and businesses, not junkies and dealers. Obviously there is a cost to this, but I think we’re at the stage where we need it.

Whenever this happens, it inevitably leads to police brutality, which results in even further distrust/opposition to the police. This is EXACTLY what just happened in Memphis. A police squad was assembled with the task of "bringing order back to the streets" and they ended up beating someone to death.

Usually I think Calgary is just as progressive as other cities. But some of the comments on this message board, which I assume skews to the left of the city as a whole, reflect such as deep conservative ideology, I wonder if the stereotypes of Calgarians are true.

 

[DiscoStu]

I lived in the US for a decade, and there is a massive different between the police force there and here in Canada. We keep trying to equate them, but they are not the same. There are dicks in every force, but I think most people here are very trusting of their police force and welcome their presence in these neighbourhoods. I don't think we're going in the right direction with all the butched-up armoured vehicles, but that's a whole other conversation.

But yep, my priority will always be with law-abiding citizens (addicts and homeless included!) and I believe in the rule of law. If that means I'm not considered a progressive, so be it. You look at all the progressive cities around (Vancouver, Portland, SF, NY) and they are the ones with the biggest issues of homelessness and drug addition. The last thing we need to be doing is follow their lead... shit, at this stage we might as well try the Costanza model, and do the opposite. To me, there's nothing progressive or humane about letting people rot on the street, and watching neighborhoods turn into an apocalyptic wasteland.

 

[badc0ffee]

I'm not really following how a new focus on public order requires forming a task force like Memphis, or if that task force would necessarily have the same problems. Saying that just seems like scaremongering. Calgary police have different training and far better pay than the cops in Memphis. The organizations have a totally different track record for brutality, culture and leadership.

 

[darwink]

No handing out drug paraphernalia

So we're trying to treat addiction and you'd like to add even more communicable diseases

you need to be punished for that

Should addiction be a death sentence? Right now, it frankly is. What would be more of a punishment?

with concrete targets and goals to live up to

Sure, but what if they don't?

most people want to get in a better situation

Yes, but that doesn't mean they can live up to their ambition.

A Heartland for addicts?!

The province has this model well in hand. The question is for the 65% of relapses, what do we do? And for people who refuse to try, what do we do?

We probably need to start bringing back more dedicated mental institutions for the people on the extreme end.

What we call them isn't here or there. We as a society don't just need the will, major money is needed.

In 1997 we spent 3.5% of the Health budget on mental health. Today it is about the same--a billion bucks a year.

Forgive me for being cynical that there just isn't willingness to spend more. The city opted not to renew mental health funding in its budget.The province is focusing on its model which will succeed for some but fail most.

Anyways, like anytime one of these conversations breaks out, can we clean these up into the homelessness thread?

 

[Surrealplaces]

Whenever this happens, it inevitably leads to police brutality, which results in even further distrust/opposition to the police. This is EXACTLY what just happened in Memphis. A police squad was assembled with the task of "bringing order back to the streets" and they ended up beating someone to death.

Usually I think Calgary is just as progressive as other cities. But some of the comments on this message board, which I assume skews to the left of the city as a whole, reflect such as deep conservative ideology, I wonder if the stereotypes of Calgarians are true.

I here the same complaints from people in other cities, just as much as Calgary. So many of my work colleagues in Ottawa are left leaning people who have been voicing what I would call 'right wing' type frustrations. Vancouver is as progressive a city as any, but go onto Vancouver Reddit these days and you'd never know it. My wife has a social worker background, and actually was a volunteer with the Salvation Army shelter, and she's also frustrated because the situation has affected her.
I'm not saying this is you specifically @Silence&Motion , but often the people who aren't frustrated are the people who haven't been affected by it.
The issue of homelessness and addiction has become noticeably worse in the last few years, not just here, but everywhere and I personally know quite a few left leaning people who are starting to voice those 'right wing' type frustrations.

Many people have said more funding can fix the issue, and that's probably true, but for the average person, it's confusing on what funding is needed. It's even confusing for the experts as they can't agree on how to fix the issue.

 

[JWhite]

I here the same complaints from people in other cities, just as much as Calgary. So many of my work colleagues in Ottawa are left leaning people who have been voicing what I would call 'right wing' type frustrations. Vancouver is as progressive a city as any, but go onto Vancouver Reddit these days and you'd never know it. My wife has a social worker background, and actually was a volunteer with the Salvation Army shelter, and she's also frustrated because the situation has affected her.
I'm not saying this is you specifically @Silence&Motion , but often the people who aren't frustrated are the people who haven't been affected by it.
The issue of homelessness and addiction has become noticeably worse in the last few years, not just here, but everywhere and I personally know quite a few left leaning people who are starting to voice those 'right wing' type frustrations.

Many people have said more funding can fix the issue, and that's probably true, but for the average person, it's confusing on what funding is needed. It's even confusing for the experts as they can't agree on how to fix the issue.

Calgary has its share of conservatives. but this isn't at all a Calgary thing. I just moved back here from Vancouver and like you said, people are fed up. The situation in Van is much worse to the point of being absolutely ludicrous. People are fed up at the police, fed up with the politicians, fed up with the homeless people. All around fed up. I was affected by it in Van and have some crazy stories, and I can understand how people get.

 

[Chinook Arch]

Usually I think Calgary is just as progressive as other cities. But some of the comments on this message board, which I assume skews to the left of the city as a whole, reflect such as deep conservative ideology, I wonder if the stereotypes of Calgarians are true.

I don't believe this is the case. Not to repeat what has already been mentioned, but imo the comments aren't a reflection of deep rooted conservatism, but more a reflection on the current situation. The issues seen lately are different than issues of the past. In the past the homeless population was mostly harmless. Conservatives ranted about the homeless and left wingers defended them, but most Calgarians were ambivalent about the situation. These days with the accelerated drug problems the homeless are more aggressive than in the past. It's affecting more people and people's mood has changed. I'm not defending this, only pointing out the changed landscape.

 

[Atticus]

The bottom line is we need to get this problem dealt with, and if it means spending more money to fix it, I am all for it. I’d be happy to see taxes go up if it means housing projects, , more rehab or whatever is needed.

Regarding the conservative nature of this issue, I do agree there is no shortage old school conservatives in Calgary, but for the most part people here on the thread are liberal minded and trying to offer solutions. Some ideas might be better than others, but sometimes people hit a frustration point where they just want to see these people incarcerated and the problem gone. I realize from a logical point of view that’s not the solution, but that feels like the solution from an emotional point of view.

 

[Atticus]

I will offer some context to how even liberal minded people can get frustrated to the point where they would want to see many of these people locked up. I’ve always been as a liberal minded as any, I’ve always felt empathy, empathy for the homeless and given money to homeless people countless times over the years. We used to save bottles and cans from the building and give them to a few of the homeless regulars.
The homeless people were grateful when they received money, and were considerate when they didn’t receive any money.
But there’s been a change. On more than one occasion, when I haven’t had money to give, some have been aggressive or belligerent. I politely told one lady I didn’t have any money, and as I walked away, she yelled “ you’d have more money if you stopped eating so much, you fat pig”

When I was working downtown, I had numerous issues with homeless people. I had my car windows, broken, people trying to jar, open the locks with screwdrivers, etc… I came out to my car once and found a guy trying to break in and he pulled a knife on me. I took off back into the building and found the cops, even though the person was on camera, and the cops knew who they were they never bothered to do anything he was back in the parking lot. Trying to break into cars a week later.
Couple of weeks later, I see him on the cameras trying to break into some cars, this time, I phoned the cops and they arrived shortly catching him in the act.
Problem solved? No. He was gone for a while, but others would come and try and break into cars, an elderly lady tried to chase off a couple of people trying to break into her car, and they left, but they came back and defecated and urinated on her car. Of course, it was on camera, given to the police, and as usual nothing came of it.
Those are a couple of recent examples, and I could go on for days.

My point being that even nice people get pushed to a point. It’s hard to have empathy when people are actively aggressive to you. I’ve told myself countless times that it’s the drugs, however when people do things directly to you, it feels personal and you start to lose empathy.

 

[artvandelay]

Whenever this happens, it inevitably leads to police brutality, which results in even further distrust/opposition to the police. This is EXACTLY what just happened in Memphis. A police squad was assembled with the task of "bringing order back to the streets" and they ended up beating someone to death.

Usually I think Calgary is just as progressive as other cities. But some of the comments on this message board, which I assume skews to the left of the city as a whole, reflect such as deep conservative ideology, I wonder if the stereotypes of Calgarians are true.

Yes - an incident that occurred in a foreign city with completely different culture / history / demographics is totally relevant to Calgary, Alberta!

I don't recall any police brutality incidents the last time there was an effort to crack down on petty crime downtown, during the reign of notorious conservative ideologue Dave Bronconnier I believe.

 

[darwink]

TBH the majority at the time didn't hear of the consequences of the 'broken windows' policing philosophy, only the benefits. When I was a security guard in a tower downtown in the early 2000s alcohol was still the drug of choice for the unhoused. Lots has changed.

 

[Surrealplaces]

But there’s been a change. On more than one occasion, when I haven’t had money to give, some have been aggressive or belligerent. I politely told one lady I didn’t have any money, and as I walked away, she yelled “ you’d have more money if you stopped eating so much, you fat pig”

My wife's had the same issue. She used to give money to homeless people regularly but now we are told by people from the social worker/shelter world not to, as it's doing more harm than good. Factor in that with the fact people don't carry money like they used to, and supply starts to dry up. Then factor in the effects of today's more potent, destructive drugs and things begin to implode.

When I was working downtown, I had numerous issues with homeless people. I had my car windows, broken, people trying to jar, open the locks with screwdrivers, etc… I came out to my car once and found a guy trying to break in and he pulled a knife on me. I took off back into the building and found the cops, even though the person was on camera, and the cops knew who they were they never bothered to do anything he was back in the parking lot. Trying to break into cars a week later.
Couple of weeks later, I see him on the cameras trying to break into some cars, this time, I phoned the cops and they arrived shortly catching him in the act.
Problem solved? No. He was gone for a while, but others would come and try and break into cars, an elderly lady tried to chase off a couple of people trying to break into her car, and they left, but they came back and defecated and urinated on her car. Of course, it was on camera, given to the police, and as usual nothing came of it.

Definitely more serious then it used to be. My wife and her coworkers have been threatened before, sometimes with knives, sometimes with needles. One of her coworkers was stabbed with a needle, and luckily no health issues came from it, but something could have. In the end my wife changed jobs, as she couldn't take it any more.

TBH the majority at the time didn't hear of the consequences of the 'broken windows' policing philosophy, only the benefits. When I was a security guard in a tower downtown in the early 2000s alcohol was still the drug of choice for the unhoused. Lots has changed.

Back in the day the term 'wino' was probably used more than the term 'homeless' and those 'winos' were generally not an issue. They went about their business.

 

[BKha]

These stories of homeless people threatening with knives and needles, and doing property damage is related to drugs for sure. I have a buddy who works down near alpha house, and always he has crazy stories. In the day when the homeless people drank alcohol and smoked pot, we didn’t have these kind of issues, heck, even crack didn’t cause these kind of issues.
I don’t know if the average person realizes how crazy and destructive crystal meth is, it causes major paranoia and hallucinations, and why it’s not surprising to see a homeless guy pull a knife on somebody.
The building, where my buddy works, has glass frontage on the street and almost every day there are meth heads standing in front of the glass, staring at the reflection. If you interrupt them while they’re doing this, they get angry and confrontational.