The Hat Elbow River | 177.99m | 56s | Cidex Group | NORR

Social Justice said:
Haha, nice.

Go live in West End for two years, let me know what you think of a tower neighborhood that wasn't properly planned.
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Respectfully so, I personally think its fear mongering on your behalf if you think every other unplanned plot of land with skyscrapers is going to turn into west end downtown. 1st SW with Underwood tower finishing along with the existing towers is a good example of a well developed street when high-rises can coexist with pedestrians to create a good city street for everyone. Heck Ive even seen some better projects in Vancouver where I did not once think about being surrounded by a bunch of glass that just shadowing me. The podium is always key from what I've seen. In the case of this project, I still don't get what people are expecting, until Macleod trail changes from what it is today, I don't even see any future developers giving a damn about pedestrian friendly projects on that road. Again I do think the interaction with the river could be improved but Imma wait for some detailed renderings.
 
MichaelS said:
I can attest to that. It is great! Nice and quiet in the evenings, plenty of available on-street parking for visitors on a Sunday when they come for dinner. Quick access to the river pathway system. If you want all the vibrancy and hustle/bustle, Kensington is a 5-7 minute walk away.

Having said that, things are changing. We had two big towers take occupancy in 2017 (Avenue West End and Vogue), and have more units under construction right now with West Village Towers and Hat 7th Ave than East Village I think. Not to mention, if One Properties moves on their 9th Ave project (2,000 units) in a couple of years, it will be like a whole new neighbourhood. We are getting an Art Gallery (old planetarium), and a refreshed high street when the Stephen Ave revamp occurs (design in 2019).

Complaints of it being non-pedestrian may be a bit true, but the wider avenues (9th and 6th) are pretty much dead to traffic most hours of the day, making walking pleasant enough. You don't always need the heavy hand of a master plan and somewhat second layer of development authority to create a great neighbourhood (see CMLC in EV, or Canada Lands in Currie Barracks), however their large marketing budgets certainly make it seem like those places are the only ones like them.
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I'll agree that it's definitely quiet in the evenings. I'm also excited that the new Art Gallery in the old planetarium. I think the two biggest problems in West End is the freeways that run through the neighborhood and the faux-gotham city style architecture.

When I see old pictures of pre-WWI houses in the west end it breaks my heart to know that we bulldozed those beauties and widened the roads.
 
With regards to Macleod/1 ST SE - I doubt there is any chance of those 2 streets becoming 2ways (again?) but the recent temporary configuration at Sarcee & Glenmore shows how it could work...

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This is essentially the same pattern, even with the return loop. The main differences being that North of the intersection, the road (Macleod) wouldn't be split, and immediately South is the Elbow bridges. (North/South pertaining to this image)

Mind you I haven't driven through this area since the reconfiguration, so I don't know how well it works. But upon looking at these construction updates for the SWCRR, this immediately reminded me of this discussion.
 

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I'm not a fan of residential areas filled with tall towers, but I'm fully on board with this one, and IMO this is a good fit. Let's face it, that parcel was never going to be a good pedestrian realm, so might as well blast it with density. The density will support another nearby streetscape or retail corridor. Not every piece of land is going to make a good streetscape or pedestrian realm, and those ones might as well have a tower or two on them.
 
Always_Biking said:
I'm not a fan of residential areas filled with tall towers, but I'm fully on board with this one, and IMO this is a good fit. Let's face it, that parcel was never going to be a good pedestrian realm, so might as well blast it with density. The density will support another nearby streetscape or retail corridor. Not every piece of land is going to make a good streetscape or pedestrian realm, and those ones might as well have a tower or two on them.
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Only issue with this plan is that density alone can't fix what's broken here.

It doesn't fix that MacLeod is terrible for all modes but suburban commuter vehicles. It doesn't fix a "lack of street life", it might actually risk killing it further due to the sheer size blocking out the sun. Most of all, soaking up thousands of units of demand in one site further delays the completion of the neighbourhood. If we are waiting for 40 to 50 storey towers, we will wait forever for Victoria Park to be filled in. Hell, even if rejecting these towers frees up demand for better towers elsewhere nearby, that could be a better outcome.

City-building is all about trade-offs and compromises. If this building went through as approved AND that triggered a cycletrack on 1st Street SE, better pedestrian improvements, more accommodating signal timing across MacLeod, I could live with the downsides of what we have seen so far. Unfortunately, things are rarely ever tied together is such neat cause-and-effect processes so approving this development doesn't get you these things directly.
 
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gsunnyg said:
Respectfully so, I personally think its fear mongering on your behalf if you think every other unplanned plot of land with skyscrapers is going to turn into west end downtown.
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I apologize if you misunderstood me. I don't want the city to let any swinging dick developer to build a bunker beside a river in the inner city.

The city needs to fix the Macleod trail couplets somehow. I'd say turn Macleod trail into a two way street and put a cycle track on 1st street for a starter.

Here, I'll show you a depressing picture:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.0431...4!1sotO9qgdH2EXcCsEmmM9HAw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

What a wasted opportunity. I've lived in Calgary my entire life and I don't think I've ever seen more than five pedestrians walk that sidewalk at a time. Why would they?
 
Personally, I don't mind that as much as stuff like this: https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.0465...4!1sH02MJ9CM-nJN4MvzU8zn5w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
And the bigger problem is, thousands of people walk past this every day. Thousands of tourists too, all those condemned-looking buildings are facing the c-train tracks.
It baffles me these haven't been torn down or developed, they're right in the core, right near Stephen Ave, right on a C-train, literally perfect location for a large development. They don't hold any "historical value," do they? I'd be amazed.

I'm totally stoked about the height of this project, I'm ... fine ... with the design of the towers. If they respected the river a little more, it would be a good project imo. I don't think it's ruining the riverside necessarily, but it has an opportunity to utilize and improve upon it and with the current design that opportunity is being wasted.
 
Meikkhaell said:
Personally, I don't mind that as much as stuff like this: https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.0465...4!1sH02MJ9CM-nJN4MvzU8zn5w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
And the bigger problem is, thousands of people walk past this every day. Thousands of tourists too, all those condemned-looking buildings are facing the c-train tracks.
It baffles me these haven't been torn down or developed, they're right in the core, right near Stephen Ave, right on a C-train, literally perfect location for a large development. They don't hold any "historical value," do they? I'd be amazed.

I'm totally stoked about the height of this project, I'm ... fine ... with the design of the towers. If they respected the river a little more, it would be a good project imo. I don't think it's ruining the riverside necessarily, but it has an opportunity to utilize and improve upon it and with the current design that opportunity is being wasted.
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Those shops are such a shame. They could easily be renovated slightly and used for some interesting low-cost retail/studio space. I have been in a few of those buildings and they are in alright shape. Fuck the landlord for not doing anything of value with them, they have the should tidy up the space and let some users come in on pop-up retail concepts.
 
The more I reflect on it, the more I'd rather they built a few 15-25 story highrises that stagger down towards the river and with much better plaza space. These towers may stick out like a sore thumb being on the southern edge of downtown and the renders show terrible street level presence. Walking down Macleod Trail, the new rental on 10th ave and the Curtis Block towers are going to really fill in some big gaps on the east side - would love to see the Oxford development just west of Keynote start instead. Beltline would feel a lot more cohesive east to west, and then after that the Entertainment District and random development around the rest of Beltline would just be icing on the cake.

Speaking of the Entertainment District: http://dailyhive.com/calgary/calgary-entertainment-district-east-victoria-park
 
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GoVertical said:
Hat @ Elbow river is in it too...wow!
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Holy hell, what is this Mississauga? 1.7 million sqft, 1400 units, 9 floors of podium, with 6 of them parking (1,180 stalls). I get it is a challenging site and I am pro-development and density, but wowzers these are going to feel, look and be way out of place for a while - or forever. That podium is as brutal and as awkward as I feared.
 
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