Scotia Place | 36.85m | 11s | CSEC | HOK

[Tothewest]

I'd weigh in here with the Flames Central v. The Palace debacle from the 2000s and 2010s.

The original design of the venue was some sort of Flames sports bar that hosted music. It featured giant screens and flames murals everywhere. Cool if you were a Flames fan - but discouraged artists to book the venue and was confusing to attendees as the market and use case was really just to provide a mid-sized concert venue in a good location. It was way over-designed towards being a strange off-site Flames thing rather than a concert thing.

Eventually (after about 7 years) they recognized that and stripped out all the tacky Flames stuff and converted it to just being a concert venue that it is now, still a bit weird layout due to the misstep of the Flames-based renovation, but at least it's not discouraging audiences and confusing people for what the place is.

The arena should take a similar note - feel free to lean a bit into the local style, but remember it's famously an "event centre" not an arena, nor a stampede venue. It is also famously not owned by the Flames or the Stampede, it isn't paid for by either of those groups, just leased to them for occasional use - it's a city-owned arena that is supposed to be for public use for major events. So add some local design flourishes, but sparingly, and remember this is a billion dollar event venue owned publicly of a city of 1.5 million people with diverse interests and ideas.

Agreed on not making it a flames or stampede driven design (even though they will have a stake as they are funding partners)...but I dont think were talking about the arena bowl itself, those largely are neutral. This is about all fan spaces and concourses, which no performer cares about. Seattle's arena SCREAMS seattle...top 10 venue in the world

 

[Roaring Flames]

I don't think it's any more off topic than most of what has been discussed here in this thread. There are examples of barn door cowboy design posted and promoted just above, but ok.


Yep that's kind of the token item I critiqued in my post



Got a species list?

The Elms are a cool heritage trees but they are not native here. They are local in the sense that they were planted here in the last century, brought from eastern Saskatchewan. Worthwhile street tree genetics.

I guess I just have higher standards than the checkbox public realm flourishes that satisfy most. And I acknowledged that in my post.

Feel free to keep talking about whatever the fuck loge boxes are.

Here are the species:​

 

[Ramsayite]

That's great, thanks for finding that. 23/31 native species is better than most attempts in this city. Now let's see if they end up planted through holes in black plastic under dyed mulch. Overall, it seems like a reasonable attempt and doing some native species landscaping though.

I was talking more about the materiality of indoor elements but happy to bring the conversation to landscaping choices too.

E: math

 

[darwink]

I'm ok with them deleting the LED ribbon, our climate hasn't proved to be kind to LED features outside....

Seems like the number of boxes / suites is way less than what they wanted. The dome has something like 70 and I thought they wanted to at least double that.

To be fair I think that was a goal in 2013/14 before the oil crash.

 

[Mountain Man]

Is there any info about what the scoreboard will be? watching the Flames - Kraken game Saturday made me want the double triangle screen they have in Seattle. The new scoreboard in the Dome is really nice, wish it had the rounded corners like most do, but it's just temporary. The one in CPA though, brilliant!

 

[Roaring Flames]

I've read about the roof being designed to be able to be fit the jumbotron when raised, so it's out of the way during events when it's not used, so I imagine it'll be quite similar to what's shown in that interior render. Interestingly the Saddledome had that same feature with it's original jumbotron, hence if you see any video's of people walking across the catwalks, you'll see a large square opening above the jumbotron, that would have fit the original 80s version.

 

[adamyyc]

I’m curious to see what the halo will be like during a game at the Intuit Dome. I can’t decide if it would be cool or distracting. Not that it matters, as I imagine that a halo would break the budget for Scotia Place. I also imagine programming and operating something like the halo would be costly.

 

[Mountain Man]

The interior render does show a space above for it to be raised up, would expect something similar to that. Would still love the Seattle version though, it looks cool. A halo would be amazing, especially with the fire graphics you could put on it, but I definitely agree that it would break the budget.

 

[Tothewest]

I think some of these "one-off" scoreboard ideas, are just that, one-offs. I can't imagine the cost for that halo in LA...tens of millions...but it's steve ballmer's money so he can do as he pleases. No different than the cowboys scoreboard, it never really took off...the latest designs from new stadiums in Buffalo/Nashville/Chicago/Las Vegas all show standard end zone boards.

The long rectangular boards give a shitty experience to people in the ends, and engineering wise i can't imagine trying to raise them for a concert. I'd bet the flames have a board within the scope of what edmonton or vancouver have, much like the rendering depicts

 

[Roaring Flames]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1853224846282366988

 

[Tothewest]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1853224846282366988

For those with more permitting experience...i'm curious to what degree interior (non structural) changes can be made after approval....without needing to go back to city hall? Given we're still 3 years out from opening, no doubt things will look different with concessions/bars/suites/ect... from what they plan now.

ie) you want to remove a few walls in a dressing room...or remove a concession and add a suite of some kind

 

[trtcttc]

For those with more permitting experience...i'm curious to what degree interior (non structural) changes can be made after approval....without needing to go back to city hall? Given we're still 3 years out from opening, no doubt things will look different with concessions/bars/suites/ect... from what they plan now.

ie) you want to remove a few walls in a dressing room...or remove a concession and add a suite of some kind

Do they even approve the interior? Or is that included for reference only. I'd imagine the interior approval is only for fire, plumbing, etc. and not any of the cosmetic or commercial things like how many suites they have. For residential and office, there's no interior approval by the city.

 

[haltcatchfire]

DP wouldn't cover interior. That would all fall under Building Permit, and at that point it's just building code compliance not design/bylaw related.

You'd still need current drawings, and be submitting revisions on the permit file.

 

[Mountain Man]

The DP covers the appearance of the building and all the zoning requirements (height of the building, massing, number of parking stalls...). If they substantially change cladding, increase the number of stores / restaurants or add seats, then the DP is involved. The BP deals with building codes, fire ratings, general functionality (HVAC, plumbing, electrical...) and life safety of the building. Whether a change would require a revision to the DP or BP depends what it is, but minor stuff is expected during construction. My projects with a retail unit typically leave it bare bones, then whatever tenant takes it will do their own drawings and permits for the space. Since this is CSEC and the City, I'm sure it's a unique process, I imagine the concessions will be managed by CSEC, but the restaurant spaces will likely be leased out.

 

[ShotArch]

I'm ok with them deleting the LED ribbon, our climate hasn't proved to be kind to LED features outside....

Seems like the number of boxes / suites is way less than what they wanted. The dome has something like 70 and I thought they wanted to at least double that.

So they amended the Dmap drawings again October 22nd and from what I can tell, It looks like they've made the video ribbon even.... Bigger?