Scotia Place | 36.85m | 11s | CSEC | HOK

[Tothewest]

I strongly disagree. I'm not a cowboy, I don't own horses or cows, I don't drive a lifted F350. Stop with the "western" theme for everything, I doesn't represent me at all. The Stampede can be a big Cowboy cosplay party, that's fine, lets dispense with horse and cow sculptures everywhere.

Well luckily designers don't look at things as literal as you do. This isn't about sticking cows and ag sculptures everywhere, it's about finding areas or textures or clubs or wayfinding or concessions in the arena to tastefully incorporate elements that represent it. ie: Prairie lands, the big sky, wood motifs, wild horses...none of that is bad. It's not all we are or stand for, and not in the entire arena, but it should have a presence...to deny it is crazy

You go to the rinks in minnesota, lots of subtle references to forests, lakes, state of hockey...it's beautiful. Detroit...brick, steel, automotive...beautiful. Seattle...environment, ocean, markets, steel/shipping...beautiful

I think a fire theme in general would be cooler and much more programmable.

I think they've done that on the exterior, and is very easy to do digitally...but it would get stale and repetitive to do it everywhere

There is A LOT of spaces and places to design...clubs, suites, bars, concessions, concourses...if done right we'll see a lot of different elements of CGY/AB

 

[Roaring Flames]

I'm 100% sure the Stampede will be involved in some way during the opening. Don't forget they they were involved in this arena deal too, they own the land that was transferred to the city in exchange to build this thing, and the arena is technically still in the northern extent of Stampede Park. Plus the Stampede was involved in opening the Saddledome too. There will be a definite Flames theme to the opening, but the Stampede will be there too.

 

[Makarov]

Well luckily designers don't look at things as literal as you do. This isn't about sticking cows and ag sculptures everywhere, it's about finding areas or textures or clubs or wayfinding or concessions in the arena to tastefully incorporate elements that represent it. ie: Prairie lands, the big sky, wood motifs, wild horses...none of that is bad. It's not all we are or stand for, and not in the entire arena, but it should have a presence...to deny it is crazy

Doesn't every city in North America have a history that includes some land, sky, woods, and some horses?

You go to the rinks in minnesota, lots of subtle references to forests, lakes, state of hockey...it's beautiful. Detroit...brick, steel, automotive...beautiful. Seattle...environment, ocean, markets, steel/shipping...beautiful

 

[Mountain Man]

Well luckily designers don't look at things as literal as you do. This isn't about sticking cows and ag sculptures everywhere, it's about finding areas or textures or clubs or wayfinding or concessions in the arena to tastefully incorporate elements that represent it. ie: Prairie lands, the big sky, wood motifs, wild horses...none of that is bad. It's not all we are or stand for, and not in the entire arena, but it should have a presence...to deny it is crazy

You go to the rinks in minnesota, lots of subtle references to forests, lakes, state of hockey...it's beautiful. Detroit...brick, steel, automotive...beautiful. Seattle...environment, ocean, markets, steel/shipping...beautiful


I think they've done that on the exterior, and is very easy to do digitally...but it would get stale and repetitive to do it everywhere

There is A LOT of spaces and places to design...clubs, suites, bars, concessions, concourses...if done right we'll see a lot of different elements of CGY/AB

So what defines "western" in your mind then? In Calgary, it's cowboys, horses, cattle and shitty wood paneling. I don't want to see any of that in the new arena lol. I'd rather they double down on the mountain theme or better, go all out on the fire theme as it's more contextually appropriate.

Hell, if we want to actually honour the real history of this city, it should begin and end with the railroad. The CPR made Calgary, ranching did not.

 

[Albertasaurus]

I'm sort of in the middle with regard to the "western theme". I think it can look good if done subtly but there are also ways it has done in the past that comes off as tacky and theme park-esque. I believe we can find a way to acknowledge our western roots while also projecting the image of a confident modern metropolis.

One change in how we might approach "western theme" these days is the need to incorporate elements recognizing Indigenous history as well, which was not top of mind 20 or even 10 years ago.

 

[Makarov]

I'm 100% sure the Stampede will be involved in some way during the opening. Don't forget they they were involved in this arena deal too, they own the land that was transferred to the city in exchange to build this thing, and the arena is technically still in the northern extent of Stampede Park. Plus the Stampede was involved in opening the Saddledome too. There will be a definite Flames theme to the opening, but the Stampede will be there too.

That video says it all. Does anyone think that (admittedly amusing in its own clown-esque way) ceremony represented the early history of the Calgary community? That's how "western heritage" is and always has been represented in Calgary. "Western heritage" is a theme park run by the Calgary Stampede.

 

[Mountain Man]

I'm 100% sure the Stampede will be involved in some way during the opening. Don't forget they they were involved in this arena deal too, they own the land that was transferred to the city in exchange to build this thing, and the arena is technically still in the northern extent of Stampede Park. Plus the Stampede was involved in opening the Saddledome too. There will be a definite Flames theme to the opening, but the Stampede will be there too.

Thank god we have come as far as we have from those days, that video is 90% cringe haha. The cost overruns and construction issues sound familiar, makes me wonder what the final cost of the new barn will inflate to.

 

[Tothewest]

So what defines "western" in your mind then? In Calgary, it's cowboys, horses, cattle and shitty wood paneling. I don't want to see any of that in the new arena lol. I'd rather they double down on the mountain theme or better, go all out on the fire theme as it's more contextually appropriate.

Hell, if we want to actually honour the real history of this city, it should begin and end with the railroad. The CPR made Calgary, ranching did not.

That video says it all. Does anyone think that (admittedly amusing in its own clown-esque way) ceremony represented the early history of the Calgary community? That's how "western heritage" is and always has been represented in Calgary. "Western heritage" is a theme park run by the Calgary Stampede.

inform yourself at least a little bit on design, especially arenas/stadiums/hospitality. Nobody said anything about turning this into a Stampede themed amusement park, its about "design inspired by". If one of the bars or clubs or restaurant looked like the below, would you throw a hissyfit? It's exactly what i'm referring to, modern design that reflects an element of the city/region

people are hilarious...we have a mega event that is the envy of every city in the world, a major major major economic driver...and the minute anyone wants to celebrate that it's "nope, not my calgary". You can literally have it both ways, creating a beautiful arena, and create design that's inspired by everything calgary

 

[Tothewest]

And for reference....because i like to bring pics and facts to the dialogue... the difference between rogers place (bland), and other venues with local personality. i choose the latter

Rogers

Others

 

[CalgaryTiger]

Give me the cringe western all day. I like that we have a thing and like it or not that in a way is our thing. Are we so much more, obviously but I don't mind leaning into a "modern west" thing. They've done it well with the stone and wood elements on what we know of the exterior. I'm not saying I want to feel like I'm at the Stampede all year but there could be worse things than some winks at the fact that we host the stampede.

The best way I can say it is giving people a "yes, and". As in, yes we host the stampede, and are close to the mountains but we also have all these other great things.

 

[Mountain Man]

inform yourself at least a little bit on design, especially arenas/stadiums/hospitality. Nobody said anything about turning this into a Stampede themed amusement park, its about "design inspired by". If one of the bars or clubs or restaurant looked like the below, would you throw a hissyfit? It's exactly what i'm referring to, modern design that reflects an element of the city/region

View attachment 605093

people are hilarious...we have a mega event that is the envy of every city in the world, a major major major economic driver...and the minute anyone wants to celebrate that it's "nope, not my calgary". You can literally have it both ways, creating a beautiful arena, and create design that's inspired by everything calgary

Inform myself? hissy fit? haha! I seem to have touched a nerve! Like I said before, "western theme" in Calgary usually means horses, cowboys and cattle (think ranching). What you show can be described as rustic maybe, but what says western? Oak barrels don't really apply as we don't have a history of distilling (though that is definitely changing, not enough to be vernacular though) and the second picture is nice, again doesn't say anything western to me. Lots of wood and lighting, but how does our "western history" get reflected in that? They don't even have the classic longhorn skull! Maybe you should be informing yourself instead of getting mad that not everyone has as narrowminded of a view of this modern and cosmopolitan city as you do. What else you got?

PS, the 2 images you like are tastefully designed and are not typically bland Edmonton. Where is the theme in those? somehow a glass canopy lit blue and an escalator full of people says automotive theme? They made it look like a 1930s streetscape a bit, does that scream Detroit and cars? Nice design is nice design, it doesn't need to be contrived to satisfy a theme.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

This is more of a comment on boring design overall but for me there was nothing like late 90's West Edmonton Mall for absolutely embracing wild design ideas. It was a theme park: The weird French Boulevard wing, the waterpark, Galaxyland, the water feature food court, and Bourbon Street is what all entertainment districts want to have. Now it is like any other mall.

What should be learned from that? Don't be afraid to have some fun with a design. Calgary is a modern and cosmopolitan city but it isn't so sophisticated it can't continue to be "western". I don't want this to be "Any City USA", we're Calgary, Cowtown, AND so much more than that but Calgary Stampede is a pretty common touch point for everyone here as a thing that is fun for all in one way or another.

 

[Mountain Man]

If we need a theme to lean into, lets diversify a bit. I'd rather lean into the mountain / wildlife theme than always going western. Why limit ourselves to a single thing just because we have Stampede? The mountain theme can get a bit played out as well, but not nearly as much as the cowboy one. Anyway, I said my bit, I leave it to you guys to debate the finer points of contemporary western life. Just stoked something is finally happening, I love the Dome but it's time to move on.

 

[CBBarnett]

I'd weigh in here with the Flames Central v. The Palace debacle from the 2000s and 2010s.

The original design of the venue was some sort of Flames sports bar that hosted music. It featured giant screens and flames murals everywhere. Cool if you were a Flames fan - but discouraged artists to book the venue and was confusing to attendees as the market and use case was really just to provide a mid-sized concert venue in a good location. It was way over-designed towards being a strange off-site Flames thing rather than a concert thing.

Eventually (after about 7 years) they recognized that and stripped out all the tacky Flames stuff and converted it to just being a concert venue that it is now, still a bit weird layout due to the misstep of the Flames-based renovation, but at least it's not discouraging audiences and confusing people for what the place is.

The arena should take a similar note - feel free to lean a bit into the local style, but remember it's famously an "event centre" not an arena, nor a stampede venue. It is also famously not owned by the Flames or the Stampede, it isn't paid for by either of those groups, just leased to them for occasional use - it's a city-owned arena that is supposed to be for public use for major events. So add some local design flourishes, but sparingly, and remember this is a billion dollar event venue owned publicly of a city of 1.5 million people with diverse interests and ideas.

 

[Tothewest]

Inform myself? hissy fit? haha! I seem to have touched a nerve! Like I said before, "western theme" in Calgary usually means horses, cowboys and cattle (think ranching). What you show can be described as rustic maybe, but what says western? Oak barrels don't really apply as we don't have a history of distilling (though that is definitely changing, not enough to be vernacular though) and the second picture is nice, again doesn't say anything western to me. Lots of wood and lighting, but how does our "western history" get reflected in that? They don't even have the classic longhorn skull! Maybe you should be informing yourself instead of getting mad that not everyone has as narrowminded of a view of this modern and cosmopolitan city as you do. What else you got?

PS, the 2 images you like are tastefully designed and are not typically bland Edmonton. Where is the theme in those? somehow a glass canopy lit blue and an escalator full of people says automotive theme? They made it look like a 1930s streetscape a bit, does that scream Detroit and cars? Nice design is nice design, it doesn't need to be contrived to satisfy a theme.

I termed it western culture elements, you're just listing off stereotypes that have little to do with design, and thinking everything needs a literal interpretation. You can have a modern, cosmopolitan city and arena, AND have some design elements that reflect local culture.

I'm not going to do your research for you, this is an forum that is now discussing construction and design, i've been to PLENTY arenas and stadiums, but i try to provide photos to illustrate my points so as not to be all "trust me". The best arenas and stadiums in the world have a sense of place, beyond just "this team plays here"

This should never be about "just western", I explicitly mentioned geography right before it. Modern arenas have many bars, clubs, suites, concessions, restaurants, ect... lots of canvases to celebrate the region