Nest | 40.23m | 15s | Cairo Development | Casola Koppe

[CBBarnett]

So kind of a good news / bad news situation. First, the good:

The DP plans are posted online if you want to see more details about this project:
http://calgarysdab.ca/pdf/2018-0162/SDAB2018-0162 Plans.pdf

The bad: They are online because the project is being appealed:
http://calgarysdab.ca/pdf/2018-0162/SDAB2018-0162 Report.pdf

From the appeal report:
I do hereby appeal the decision of the Subdivision/Development Authority for the following reasons (Attach a separate page if required): We believe strongly that this development will create an extremely unsafe pedestrian and traffic situation, as well add the already congested parking situation, along 18th Avenue SE and at the corner of 18th Avenue south east and Macleod Trail southbound. Having lived in the area for over 5 years we are well aware of the current lack of street parking along 18th Avenue SE, west of Macleod southbound, and how 18th Ave already turns into a single lane roadway when student are being dropped of for school. Hundreds of student walk along 18 Ave, and that corner with Macleod, every school day morning, as do thousands of attendees to events at the Saddledome and Stampede grounds. We will detail the full extent of our concerns, along with copies of letters previously sent to City Planning expressing our fears and concerns to sdab@calagry.ca.

Perhaps the appellant for this development (and the thousands of others units planned nearby) would better spend their time using this development as trigger and to build the coalition/case to actually address the issues mentioned. Example: stop signs at all intersections and a controlled intersection at Macleod and 18th?

Development is not the problem here, lack of development is.

 

[Beltline_B]

Thanks for the update. I Hope the appeal fails as I think the concern is exaggerated. I lived on that street for a couple years and yeah it gets congested, especially around the mornings and with school kids being dropped off, but the affect of parking and traffic affect from this project is negligible at best compared to the school and the Stanpede grounds.

So kind of a good news / bad news situation. First, the good:

The DP plans are posted online if you want to see more details about this project:
http://calgarysdab.ca/pdf/2018-0162/SDAB2018-0162 Plans.pdf

The bad: They are online because the project is being appealed:
http://calgarysdab.ca/pdf/2018-0162/SDAB2018-0162 Report.pdf

From the appeal report:
I do hereby appeal the decision of the Subdivision/Development Authority for the following reasons (Attach a separate page if required): We believe strongly that this development will create an extremely unsafe pedestrian and traffic situation, as well add the already congested parking situation, along 18th Avenue SE and at the corner of 18th Avenue south east and Macleod Trail southbound. Having lived in the area for over 5 years we are well aware of the current lack of street parking along 18th Avenue SE, west of Macleod southbound, and how 18th Ave already turns into a single lane roadway when student are being dropped of for school. Hundreds of student walk along 18 Ave, and that corner with Macleod, every school day morning, as do thousands of attendees to events at the Saddledome and Stampede grounds. We will detail the full extent of our concerns, along with copies of letters previously sent to City Planning expressing our fears and concerns to sdab@calagry.ca.

 

[Beltline_B]

This

Perhaps the appellant for this development (and the thousands of others units planned nearby) would better spend their time using this development as trigger and to build the coalition/case to actually address the issues mentioned. Example: stop signs at all intersections and a controlled intersection at Macleod and 18th?

Development is not the problem here, lack of development is.

 

[Operater]

Hi,
This Looks Interesting.Lets see what happens.
Tnx,
Operater.

 

[Cowtown]

Got an update e-mail from these guys the other day mentioning units being for sale. The project is still ongoing, but with it being condos I have a feeling it's not going to go anywhere.

 

[JonnyCanuck]

This has been in pre-sale for several months. Yes ... market conditions would suggest that it is not going anywhere soon! We'll know they are serious when they open a sales centre.

 

[Always_Biking]

This has been in pre-sale for several months. Yes ... market conditions would suggest that it is not going anywhere soon! We'll know they are serious when they open a sales centre.

Maybe it's better it doesn't go anywhere for now. Given the Macleod Trail side, it's not a bad project, but it also sits on the river. It should be nicer IMO.

 

[Mountain Man]

Isn't there a sales centre on 17 between 1st and Centre St SE?

https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.0378...lZz6I2qaqMqxphLJR8xg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Last I heard the DP was under appeal and it was going to CPC or SDAB or something.

 

[JonnyCanuck]

Maybe it's better it doesn't go anywhere for now. Given the Macleod Trail side, it's not a bad project, but it also sits on the river. It should be nicer IMO.

Originally, the same developer was planning on a luxury condo of 15-20 floors, one suite per floor. That goes back almost 10 years now.

Somehow, I missed this sales centre on 17 Ave.

 

[CBBarnett]

Maybe it's better it doesn't go anywhere for now. Given the Macleod Trail side, it's not a bad project, but it also sits on the river. It should be nicer IMO.

Maybe. But it's 15 floors of low-cost apartments with no vehicle parking on a hard-to-develop site next to a 4 lane one-way (with an additional 5.2m road-widening setback because we are insane). Not a fan of the main floor either, but would be hard to imagine a different one without fixing the terrible-ness that is MacLeod Trail to live next to. Encourages a bunker-like main floor as it's essentially unusable except for bike parking, a gym etc. The net gain from fewer vehicles and more walking/cycling residents outweighs my aesthetic concerns.

The building would also act as a nice buffer into Mission proper, giving a shot of vitality and a physical barrier to MacLeod from where there are more salvageable sites to to live. I think of this one similarly to McPherson Place (i think that's what its called) in Bridgeland. Walled off Bridgeland from Memorial freeway, giving the rest of the neighbourhood a chance to develop into something more comfortable and attractive. McPherson Place isn't particularly attractive, but does the job well and we have seen many other developments fill in behind since (not that it's necessarily a causal relationship).

 

[MichaelS]

Last I heard the DP was under appeal and it was going to CPC or SDAB or something.

It was appealed, but the appeal board still granted an approval (with some new conditions). Decision can be seen here:
https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/absdab/doc/2018/2018cgysdab162/2018cgysdab162.html?resultIndex=1

 

[kora]

Maybe. But it's 15 floors of low-cost apartments with no vehicle parking on a hard-to-develop site next to a 4 lane one-way (with an additional 5.2m road-widening setback because we are insane). Not a fan of the main floor either, but would be hard to imagine a different one without fixing the terrible-ness that is MacLeod Trail to live next to. Encourages a bunker-like main floor as it's essentially unusable except for bike parking, a gym etc. The net gain from fewer vehicles and more walking/cycling residents outweighs my aesthetic concerns.

The building would also act as a nice buffer into Mission proper, giving a shot of vitality and a physical barrier to MacLeod from where there are more salvageable sites to to live. I think of this one similarly to McPherson Place (i think that's what its called) in Bridgeland. Walled off Bridgeland from Memorial freeway, giving the rest of the neighbourhood a chance to develop into something more comfortable and attractive. McPherson Place isn't particularly attractive, but does the job well and we have seen many other developments fill in behind since (not that it's necessarily a causal relationship).

Low cost? Per square foot considering no parking? It's not low cost

 

[CBBarnett]

Low cost? Per square foot considering no parking? It's not low cost

Good catch. I meant more "financially accessible" than low-cost. A future middle class tower.

 

[kora]

Good catch. I meant more "financially accessible" than low-cost. A future middle class tower.

Yeah, it will be interesting to see how these no parking towers age in 30 years. I wonder if it can sell out considering Underwood and Sodo are renting 1 bedrooms for $1600+ and Marda for $1700+. That must be a large part of the appeal

 

[CBBarnett]

Yeah, it will be interesting to see how these no parking towers age in 30 years. I wonder if it can sell out considering Underwood and Sodo are renting 1 bedrooms for $1600+ and Marda for $1700+. That must be a large part of the appeal

Underwood's 1 bedrooms don't include parking, at least that's what their sales staff told me a week ago. Charge will be a few hundred extra for a stall (2BR might have it included?)

Will be interesting for sure. Both car-free/car-lite and car-continuity arguments have merit (1. density and congestion growth reduce benefits of having car + mobility as a service + active modes + fleet-based autonomous vehicles = less car ownership and less parking demand; 2. owner-based autonomous vehicles + continued sprawl + car-oriented development continues unabated = more car ownership and more parking demand).

Guessing the future is tricky business and what is true in one place might be false in another. Centre Beltline might evolve to be car-free one-day, MacLeod corridor might never lose a lane.