Urban Development and Proposals Discussion

[Surrealplaces]

Totally ignorant on this but have we seen any proposals for next tallest building? Toronto will be breaking 300m in the next 5 or so years and I feel like it isn't that out of reach in the West to do the same.

There was a proposal (Oxford) a while back for a building that was ~265m, but it never came to fruition. Apparently it hinged on getting a main anchor tenant, and at one time Husky was in the mix for the anchor tenant, but re-signed at their current WCP. I don't expect to see a new tallest anytime soon, but I'm not ruling it out for the future. 20 years ago there was talk of a TCPL building a tower that would be taller than Suncor, and when didn't happen, I thought Suncor might stay the tallest forever...now it's the 4th tallest.. I'm not holding my breath, but it wouldn't surprise me if tall towers are back on the slate in 10 years.

 

[Oddball]

Totally ignorant on this but have we seen any proposals for next tallest building? Toronto will be breaking 300m in the next 5 or so years and I feel like it isn't that out of reach in the West to do the same.

I believe the current tallest proposal outside of Toronto is la Phare du Quebec in Quebec City. It looks nice, but god knows where they're at for construction progress. Stantec in Edmonton just surpassed the Brookfield as the tallest outside Toronto. The One in Toronto is set to become the new tallest.

 

[Morshed]

Whatever happened to the development city councilor druh tweeted about last year? No more teasers since the city elections!

 

[AJX]

I believe the current tallest proposal outside of Toronto is la Phare du Quebec in Quebec City. It looks nice, but god knows where they're at for construction progress. Stantec in Edmonton just surpassed the Brookfield as the tallest outside Toronto. The One in Toronto is set to become the new tallest.

Glad to see The One u/c, it's going to be nice to add a supertall to Canada.

 

[Reecemartin]

I believe the current tallest proposal outside of Toronto is la Phare du Quebec in Quebec City. It looks nice, but god knows where they're at for construction progress. Stantec in Edmonton just surpassed the Brookfield as the tallest outside Toronto. The One in Toronto is set to become the new tallest.

One Yonge is actually proposed for a few meters taller than the One, it's right by Union. The Mirvhish and Gehry project is also supposed to be about 305m. And of course there's lots of other proposals in the pipe.

Now that Stantec is nearing structural completion it would be cool to see another tall tower and imo realistically Calgary is probably best suited when the time comes since there's starting to be quite a tabletop

 

[gsunnyg]

Honestly I don't see why we can't have a condo/hotel project 250+m being proposed within the next 3 years or so. Hotel market is doing really strong again while beltline/downtown is still doing a lot better in absorbing condos/rentals than the rest of the city. We had a strong municipal census this year, if can start putting up 35k+ people a year again in this city, I don't see why something big is unrealistic. I know someone said that I must be insane to think the next tallest building in Calgary won't be an office building but seeing how most of the tallest proposals across Canada are condos/hotels, it just seems like a matter of time before Calgary joins in on the fun. I was reading an article from March that showed hard construction costs and obtaining land was significantly cheaper in Calgary than Toronto and Vancouver which might explain the mini rental/condo boom we continue to have in a downturn. Some of these developers in Vancouver are barely breaking even because so much cost goes into just obtaining the land.

 

[kora]

beltline/downtown is still doing a lot better in absorbing condos/rentals than the rest of the city

You have to wonder why we're having all these retail vacancies in the Beltline if the population is way up. Is it because a lot of people who shop on 17th Avenue and other major Beltline streets are from outside the community? Or is it the shift to online shopping? I was just in Vancouver and they seem to have no retail vacancy problem at all in their inner city neighbourhoods like the Beltline.

 

[Social Justice]

You have to wonder why we're having all these retail vacancies in the Beltline if the population is way up. Is it because a lot of people who shop on 17th Avenue and other major Beltline streets are from outside the community? Or is it the shift to online shopping? I was just in Vancouver and they seem to have no retail vacancy problem at all in their inner city neighbourhoods like the Beltline.

Perhaps higher business taxes? I noticed the vacancies too.

 

[Reecemartin]

Btw all when I mentioned Iconic lighting something that came to mind was Aura in Toronto:

This tower is even more outstanding looking at night than in the day imo

 

[darwink]

Perhaps higher business taxes? I noticed the vacancies too.

I think there is some motivation to maintain rents. If you have 20 properties, do you lower rents to get people into the last 2? As a landlord you could end up further behind in the end.

Do you break up large restaurant space into smaller units? Would doing so maybe cause problems with code compliance that limit your rentable area?

The old Keg space for example if I was the landlord I would wait until the new hotel opens just up the road rather than rush to fill the space.

 

[gsunnyg]

You have to wonder why we're having all these retail vacancies in the Beltline if the population is way up. Is it because a lot of people who shop on 17th Avenue and other major Beltline streets are from outside the community? Or is it the shift to online shopping? I was just in Vancouver and they seem to have no retail vacancy problem at all in their inner city neighbourhoods like the Beltline.

I don't have an answer specifically for the beltline but I know that Sears closing flooded the overall market of Calgarys available retail space considerably https://www.retail-insider.com/reta...rates-jump-in-calgary-following-sears-closure

One of the biggest things that always discussed about is unlike many cities, Calgarys businesses pick up a lot more of the tax burden in the city compared to residential. Many cities have their tax rates equally distributed between businesses and communities but apparently right now businesses pay 3.8 times the municipal tax rate that property owners pay. They have considered shifting the burden more on to communities but Calgarians have become used to with the traditional model for far too long that it would draw serious criticism at this point. If the tax ratio was shifted to the suggested 2-1 instead of 3.8 then that would mean a residential property rate hike of 36.3%! Just another reason why I can go on forever about how much we've overbuilt with sprawl and can't maintain ourselves efficiently. As city we consider ourselves business friendly but if u look into it deeper, we've got a whole lot of problems that say otherwise.

 

[kora]

Yeah, you're right. Taxes are probably the main reason for the business failures. Don't we have the lowest residential property taxes in Canada?

 

[CBBarnett]

A few reasons that are commonly cited for retail vacancies in new buildings, probably some truth in the Calgary market for a few of these:

• Transition to online shopping and "experiential retail" created a glut of former retail space that isn't suited / in demand yet for reuse (e.g. bars and restaurants v. clothing stores)
• Mixed-use buildings tend to focus on their profit centre rather than retail (e.g. sell/market the condo/office above, they don't care as much about the base which isn't nearly as valuable or in their area of specialization)
• Developers / city policy tend to create retail that is unusable to many possible tenants (e.g. too big/expensive for anything but a chain which there is only so much demand for, but are often preferred to a small-scale start-ups that can be risky)
  • All those silly flood-plain steps in Victoria Parks condo row make the sites unattractive and un-rentable and have sat empty for a decade
  • Many older retail spaces are unattractive given poor building design, zoning issues, or being too large/awkward to cater to new tenants and markets
• Developers have deep pockets and can afford to sit on vacant space rather than the cost of managing a space for minimal profit (again, if I am developing big towers a vacant main floor isn't much of a big deal, I can wait for an ideal tenant)

 

[kora]

• Developers / city policy tend to create retail that is unusable to many possible tenants (e.g. too big/expensive for anything but a chain which there is only so much demand for, but are often preferred to a small-scale start-ups that can be risky)
  • All those silly flood-plain steps in Victoria Parks condo row make the sites unattractive and un-rentable and have sat empty for a decade
  • Many older retail spaces are unattractive given poor building design, zoning issues, or being too large/awkward to cater to new tenants and markets

I've definitely seen examples of this in the Beltline. Poor design still prevails in some developments. Most of these spaces are either perpetually vacant or go through a cycle of short term tenants. There are the steps up from the sidewalk to retail units on 17th Avenue. Better to have steps inside the store. There are other CRUs without a direct entrance facing the sidewalk. Both serious design mistakes.

 

[DougB]

Honestly I would almost never use neighborhood retail as the selection and pricing can never complete with online or big box. That leaves podium retail to liquor stores, flower shops, spas etc. Restaurants are the best use.