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Urban Development and Proposals Discussion

Ridiculous to need development approval to rebuild a private small business or personal residence due to a fire. The city should not be allowed to get in the way of people getting their life back to what it was before a catastrophe.

Now what? Bankrupt a family, or force them to spend a zillion on lawyers to fight for what's right?
 
I understand that the family is not a property developer, but can't they simply sell the property if they're just looking to retire? The land must be highly valued and future green line development will only further increase the potential value. Why sell it to the city, when you can get so much more on the market? Bankruptcy is a bit of stretch when these folks are landowners of a highly desired piece of property.
 
If the city won't allow them to rebuild, I think they should buy the property off them.
I don't usually support the city getting involved in private business stuff like this, but it might be the best compromise. I understand why the city would want to take advantage and avoid a parking lot and drive through on Centre Street, especially if the city wants to make that location a TOD at some point n the future, but at the same time if you're going to stop someone from trying to rebuild their business that was already a drive through, you'd better be prepared to compensate them somehow.
 
I understand that the family is not a property developer, but can't they simply sell the property if they're just looking to retire? The land must be highly valued and future green line development will only further increase the potential value. Why sell it to the city, when you can get so much more on the market? Bankruptcy is a bit of stretch when these folks are landowners of a highly desired piece of property.

I believe the family that runs the DQ franchise are not the landowners. It would be great to have more specifics, particularly on whose insurance is paying for what and under what conditions. Of course, Corbella couldn't see fit to provide that level of detail since she needed to devote so much column space to tell us about all the tissues she used up while crying all over her keyboard. 🙄
 
For what it's worth, there is another DQ up Centre ST (actually, on 40 Ave) that doesn't have a drive-thru. I suspect that the immediate surroundings are much less busier than at Centre and 16 Ave, and yet it is a pretty successful franchise. Perhaps I'm biased for being only a block away from this location, but it is always busy when I stop in for ice cream 🤷‍♂️.

While the fire and resulting financial struggles are tragic, they will do just fine without a drive-thru or front facing parking lot if they choose to rebuild.
 
Really. Do you own a business? We should bankrupt this family? So , every business that burns down that doesn’t meet your future vision should be terminated? The socialism on this forum is outrageous.
How is this socialism?

Socialism is a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

How does this apply in any way to city planning and zoning?
 
Really. Do you own a business? We should bankrupt this family? So , every business that burns down that doesn’t meet your future vision should be terminated? The socialism on this forum is outrageous.
You didn't properly read my post. Not once did I say every business that burns down should be terminated because it doesn't meet my vision. This is one of the few locations in the city where a drive through is a concern, one of the other ones has already been mentioned (McDonald's on 16th). In 99% of the city this wouldn't matter to me at all.. I also have no problem with the city buying them out or offering them some sort of compensation for the loss of the drive through.

I feel for the business owners, but the article isn't clear on some things. The article doesn't disclose all the financial aspects of this situation, what insurance covers, or how much etc, what the actual impact to the family is, or the landowner, or how this works when your're a franchisee, etc.. None of that is disclosed in the article.
 
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This is a strange hill to die on from a city planning perspective, specifically because the location, fire, and insurance situation. I'd let them rebuild it.

The 17th MacDonald's is a much different situation, I'd refuse that vehicle access from 17th with my dying breath.
Fully agree. I just find it strange and frustrating that while this appeal was happening on Thursday, literally at the exact same time, Councillor Woolley was trying to convince the Planning Commission that permitting a drivethrough onto 17th Avenue would be a better overall outcome for Calgary, despite the policy conflict......
 
This is a strange hill to die on from a city planning perspective, specifically because the location, fire, and insurance situation. I'd let them rebuild it.

The 17th MacDonald's is a much different situation, I'd refuse that vehicle access from 17th with my dying breath.
It comes across as a strange hill to die on, but on the other hand, it's a location where the city is trying to promote Mainstreet and TOD initiatives. The link @darwink posted is not available anymore, but in the document the city's explanation for the refusal was to do with their mainstreet, and TOD initiatives, so I can understand where they are coming from. If the city is going to push these initiatives they have to walk the talk. If the drive thru was anywhere else, it wouldn't make any sense at all, but the city is trying to avoid making a mistake now that they might have to deal with later.
Some compromises might be to allow the rebuild with a drive thru, but have a 20 year limit on the drive thru portion, at which time it's revisited, or the city buys them out, or they compensate them for the loss of the drive thru.
 
Fully agree. I just find it strange and frustrating that while this appeal was happening on Thursday, literally at the exact same time, Councillor Woolley was trying to convince the Planning Commission that permitting a drivethrough onto 17th Avenue would be a better overall outcome for Calgary, despite the policy conflict......
Why Woolley would contradict himself is strange. Either the city is doing this or they aren't. The city used it's Mainsteets initiatives as a reason to deny the drive thru at DQ, and I'm pretty sure 17th ave is part of their Mainstreets initiative.
 
Why Woolley would contradict himself is strange. Either the city is doing this or they aren't. The city used it's Mainsteets initiatives as a reason to deny the drive thru at DQ, and I'm pretty sure 17th ave is part of their Mainstreets initiative.
The City (administration) recommended refusal of the McDonalds land use that would enshrine the drive through. Woolley felt that it was the lesser of two evils, and pushed to see it remain, with a DP as shown in the concept. That amendment lost on a tie (both Councillors on CPC, Woolley and Gondeck) were in favour of keeping the driveway. Administration's recommendation only went forward with the chair's tie breaking vote. Woolley asked that his amendment also be forwarded to Council, so expect him to lobby other councillors to allow this drive through at the public hearing when Council votes.

The video is here: https://pub-calgary.escribemeetings...gary Planning Commission_2021-04-22-03-01.mp4
Wooley's defence of the drivethrough starts at about the 1:08:25 mark.
 
I get the 'landowner should be able to rebuild', but the city needs to stop allowing drive-throughs on main streets in all cases.
The reasonable and amicable solution could be this:
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Allow them to build a street-oriented 1 storey building with rear parking and without a drive-thru or with a tiny drive-thru only accessible from the lane. City waives fees on subdivision application to make the site a digestible size for a standalone building. Expedite an LOC application for the newly subdivided land for like a M-U2d5.0h29 and the land owner can sell with the land lift. Ensure the new building has a cinderblock party wall on the north edge to allow for wall-to-wall development. Family gets new DQ to operate, landowner gets more money from land lift and sale of subdivided parcel, city and people get a building that belongs on a main street.

But the landowner maintains they need a sea of parking and a drive-thru and will refuse to budge, so off we go not finding good solutions on this. How this wasn't sorted out in a pre-app is beyond me.
 
How this wasn't sorted out in a pre-app is beyond me.
They didn't want to compromise it seems, so the chance for dialog goes away. If they had been willing to 'trade' away their two Centre St curb cuts, and pushed their development to the corner, I bet they'd have even been allowed to keep a drive up window. But no compromise by the applicant leads to no compromise by the city.

Plus the file manager feeling a little empowered to not compromise due to a 'strong rejection' comment from the local councillor.
 

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