JesseLikesCities
Active Member
I love this image.
I love this image.
Try this feature. A very well done, free mapping tool with 2016 dataset loaded right in https://censusmapper.ca/maps/new#14/51.0049/-114.0946
I had an interesting thought today, and I decided to pull up some data from the US Bureau of Statistics to confirm my notion. Without further ado, my shower-thought worthy question was how Lethbridge CMA and future Red Deer CMAs compare to the largest Metropolitan Statistical Areas (MSAs) in the state of Montana. I don't think Canadian CMAs and US MSA are a roughly 1-to-1 match up, but I think they're probably close enough to get the feel. If anything I get the sense that US MSAs are probably a little more generous than their Canadian counterparts. But that's only a subjective sense I get from maps like this.
Moving right along. The Lethbridge CMA has a population of 117,394 for the 2016 census. Unfortunately Lethbridge hasn't yet been included in the annual estimates for CMAs so that's the most up to date data for it.
Red Deer isn't yet a CMA, but it should be by the time the next census rolls around, based on it's population in excess of 100K simply for the city itself and with no inclusion of outlying areas. So there are a few of possible definitions:
All of these stats are also from 2016. My best guess is that it'll be option 3, Red Deer and Lacombe counties on account of Blackfalds and Lacombe being so close to Red Deer. Hard to say though. The minimum would probably be option 2, just Red Deer County. For illustrative purposes I'm going to go with number 3.
- Red Deer proper - 100,418
- Red Deer County and all enclosed centres of population - 148,815
- Red Deer and Lacombe Counties and all enclosed centres of populaiton - 185,608
- Alberta Census Division 8 (Red Deer, Lacombe and Ponoka Counties and all enclosed centres of population - 209,395
I'll also throw in Calgary and Edmonton's CMA data from the 2016 census for good measure, though there are different estimates available. This data at least most comparable to that of Lethbrigde and Red Deer.
The US uses a slightly different system. They do a decennial census on the 0s (e.g. 1990, 2000, 2010) and have estimates for all their MSAs for each year in between. So they do have 2017 estimates, but I'll stick to comparing apples to as-close-to-apple-like-things as possible and use the 2016 MSA estimate for Montana.
Here's what the combined 2016 MSA & CMA ranking looks like:
So not only are Calgary and Edmonton larger than anything in our only bordering state, likely so is Red Deer and Lethbrige would be middle of the pack if it were in Montana. It just kinda goes to show the lopsided relationship that exists between Alberta and Montana. Maybe I'll do so more digging around the US border states, but I think it might be the most lopsided relationship between a Canadian Province and it's US counterparts. (Quebec clearly crushes Vermont, but it also borders New York, New Hampshire and Maine.)
- Calgary, AB - 1,392,609
- Edmonton, AB - 1,321,426
- Red Deer, AB (option 3) - 185,608
- Billings, MT - 168,961
- Lethbridge, AB - 117,394
- Missoula - 115,896
- Great Falls - 81,488
I had an interesting thought today, and I decided to pull up some data from the US Bureau of Statistics to confirm my notion. Without further ado, my shower-thought worthy question was how Lethbridge CMA and future Red Deer CMAs compare to the largest Metropolitan Statistical Areas (MSAs) in the state of Montana. I don't think Canadian CMAs and US MSA are a roughly 1-to-1 match up, but I think they're probably close enough to get the feel. If anything I get the sense that US MSAs are probably a little more generous than their Canadian counterparts. But that's only a subjective sense I get from maps like this.
Moving right along. The Lethbridge CMA has a population of 117,394 for the 2016 census. Unfortunately Lethbridge hasn't yet been included in the annual estimates for CMAs so that's the most up to date data for it.
Red Deer isn't yet a CMA, but it should be by the time the next census rolls around, based on it's population in excess of 100K simply for the city itself and with no inclusion of outlying areas. So there are a few of possible definitions:
All of these stats are also from 2016. My best guess is that it'll be option 3, Red Deer and Lacombe counties on account of Blackfalds and Lacombe being so close to Red Deer. Hard to say though. The minimum would probably be option 2, just Red Deer County. For illustrative purposes I'm going to go with number 3.
- Red Deer proper - 100,418
- Red Deer County and all enclosed centres of population - 148,815
- Red Deer and Lacombe Counties and all enclosed centres of populaiton - 185,608
- Alberta Census Division 8 (Red Deer, Lacombe and Ponoka Counties and all enclosed centres of population - 209,395
I'll also throw in Calgary and Edmonton's CMA data from the 2016 census for good measure, though there are different estimates available. This data at least most comparable to that of Lethbrigde and Red Deer.
The US uses a slightly different system. They do a decennial census on the 0s (e.g. 1990, 2000, 2010) and have estimates for all their MSAs for each year in between. So they do have 2017 estimates, but I'll stick to comparing apples to as-close-to-apple-like-things as possible and use the 2016 MSA estimate for Montana.
Here's what the combined 2016 MSA & CMA ranking looks like:
So not only are Calgary and Edmonton larger than anything in our only bordering state, likely so is Red Deer and Lethbrige would be middle of the pack if it were in Montana. It just kinda goes to show the lopsided relationship that exists between Alberta and Montana. Maybe I'll do so more digging around the US border states, but I think it might be the most lopsided relationship between a Canadian Province and it's US counterparts. (Quebec clearly crushes Vermont, but it also borders New York, New Hampshire and Maine.)
- Calgary, AB - 1,392,609
- Edmonton, AB - 1,321,426
- Red Deer, AB (option 3) - 185,608
- Billings, MT - 168,961
- Lethbridge, AB - 117,394
- Missoula - 115,896
- Great Falls - 81,488
Quoted from the RNDSQR Inglewood thread. It's likely a couple of the Beltline CTs will get split as they they were delineated based on 2011 stats and a lot has changed since. 8250031 and 8250045 are now over the upper population guideline and that's not including the population growth that has happened since 2016. It's also possible that 8250044 gets split as well.It's all relative when it comes to density, and I don't always agree that height is a problem, but design can be (in which height and street interface, shadows, flexibility of spaces are components). Here's a random brain dump and some useful statistics that might be worth throwing into the conversations:
Let's put Calgary into perspective with it's contemporaries closer to home. 10,000 people / km2 is a rough idea of what is required to support local pedestrian-oriented retail - sometimes more, sometimes less. Globally, 10,000 people /km2 is quite low in most European and Asian cities considered anywhere near vibrant, but for Canada it's not a bad place to start. Keep in mind that population density ignores the far harder to measure "bridge and tunnel" population (e.g. downtown is a good place for retail due to number of people who visit, not number of people who live there etc.) Destination streets always can get a vibrancy benefit by the tourist, non-local visitors.
The following table I threw together from 2016 Statscan data. Here's the link for the data-nerd folks link. Also there are definitions of what a Census Tract (CT) is on there, I won't get into it here. By 2021 I think all these cities will see a few more census tracts over the arbitrary threshold. Most importantly for folks that dream of a more urban Calgary that demands more urban designs and has more urban vibrancy (whatever that means to you), the total population living at higher densities is important for political, economic and cultural clout:
City Number of CTs over 10,000 people / km2 Population living at 10,000 people / km2 Edmonton 1 5,362 Calgary 2 14,163 Ottawa 5 25,900 Vancouver 43 227,000 Toronto 121 690,000 Montreal 180 590,000 My point of digging into all this is 12 storeys or not, Inglewood is nowhere near dense by Calgary, Canadian and certainly not Mexico City standards. I prefer dense 6 storey neighbourhoods too, but with our setbacks and low coverage ratios, Inglewood could tear down every single low-rise on all streets and still struggle to reach a more typical vibrant urban threshold. Height is required to get anywhere close. If designed properly it's not a deal breaker by any means.
- The densest Census Tract in Alberta is in Calgary, in the Beltline's most developed core area - roughly 14 to 8 St W, 10 to 17 Ave S. This stretch has a 2016 population of 8,109 and a density of 14,134 / km2. This area will see further density increases in 2021 census due to all the residential towers near the Midtown CO-OP that should be counted by then.
- We *may* have a third CT over the density threshold in 2021, essentially the other central chunk of the Beltline from 10 to 17 Ave S and 8 St W to Macleod-ish due to the growth in the area
- Interesting side-fact: Alberta only had 3 census tracts with over 10,000 people / km2 in 2016 (2 Calgary, 1 Edmonton)
- Inglewood gets unfairly screwed in Statscan analysis by the geographic threshold of it's CT, it's too small of a population so get lumped into a giant area including the railyards with only 4,078 people. Obviously this creates a very low density (770 people / km2). The City's geographies are more generous, giving the neighbourhood somewhere double that (~1,500 people/km2) if we use the City's neighbourhood boundary.
- In general Calgary's density takes a hit for CT-based density calculations due to our far greater supply of open space getting lumped into the area calculations. This is due to mostly to our far above average supply of park space and rivers/floodways, followed closely by our really low lot coverage rations from lawns, setbacks and wasted space between built structures.