heightjunkie
New Member
what do you have against the +15 network? I rather like it, and it's unique among winter cities. Edmontonians certainly envy the crap out of it.
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General Construction Updates
- Thread starter Surrealplaces
- Start date
Rollerstud98
Active Member
Takes away from bodies on the streets, some people want to see more people on the sidewalks so that the downtown core feels more alive. I'd rather be out of the elements both summer and winter.
heightjunkie
New Member
I think that the +15 network just acts as a secondary streetscape for the city. Most buildings downtown have retail options and public spaces on their +15 floors to accommodate this. It creates liveliness and community even in the dead of winter. I think it serves a wonderful complimentary role to the regular streetscape
Surrealplaces
Moderator
If the city had have made new buildings put at least half of the retail on the street but still allowed the +15 I think it would have been fine. There are too many buildings full of retail but are completely lifeless on the outside. I do like to use it when it's cold or rainy.
UrbanWarrior
Senior Member
That is my concern with the +15 network as well.
Surrealplaces
Moderator
Parkade extension at the Children's Hospital.
ahuch
New Member
I figured this would happen eventually since the condition for getting these permits was to add that double turning lane and remove access to the first lights from NB Deerfoot access. The road design in that area is pretty terrible overall and the city let the developers get away with cheaping out, there was originally supposed to be a back road like 126 ave on the south side with higher emphasis on utilizing those for access to businesses, and the 4 way stop of doom would have been removed as well. Adding a bunch of additional traffic could get interesting, but maybe there are ways to change the timing to help with that?
heightjunkie
New Member
Fair concerns... having active streetscapes around our buildings in the core is a great goal, but I think the "streetscape" and community that is built up in the +15 areas is pretty interesting on it's own as well. I could get behind a better balancing of retail spaces between ground floor/ +15 levels, but to outright pan the +15 network is foolish when the city exists in a sub 0 state for ~ 1/2 the year at least.
Silence&Motion
Senior Member
RE: +15, I think one of the issues is that the +15 has been designed around the 9-5 crowd. It's basically just a set of bridges connecting food courts and office building lobbies. It's not a replacement for a neighbourhood. It offers little to residents of downtown and nothing to draw people into downtown outside the 9-5. Given that just a few property owners control the entire +15 network, the idea that they would voluntarily change things to accommodate a 24-7 customer base made up of local residents and recreational visitors seems like a long shot. Transitioning downtown to a 24-7 residential/recreational destination would be a lot easier if most of the retail was at street level. That would give individual retailers a lot more autonomy on hours, etc.
darwink
Senior Member
One of the interesting aspects of the +15 is that it was originally built in recognition that Calgary's downtown sidewalks were too narrow, not to be an enclosed streetscape environment. So the impetus to move retail off of those sidewalks was not just a consequence, it was the goal. Now, the +15 was also supposed to be 24 hours, and be far more extensive (every block connected to every other block with two bridges), and be the streetscape, with the ground level becoming almost like Chicago's lower road network.
CBBarnett
Active Member
This is interesting because the assumption that they are too narrow is solely dependent on another assumption, that expanding them and taking vehicle space was unfathomable. If you don't value vehicular throughput as much, the rest of the assumptions also hold less water.
darwink
Senior Member
Yeah pretty much.
Combined with the CALTS 1968 plan, basically an almost ring freeway around downtown feeding into massive interceptor parkades, a mass transit subway, and plus 15s.
Would have been entirely different. And entirely motivated by an assumption that road space was for cars.
Combined with the CALTS 1968 plan, basically an almost ring freeway around downtown feeding into massive interceptor parkades, a mass transit subway, and plus 15s.
Would have been entirely different. And entirely motivated by an assumption that road space was for cars.
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Mountain Man
Senior Member
The +15 has it's benefits to be sure, I used it daily for a few years and it was nice to go get some lunch and hit the mall without bringing a coat. My biggest beef is that there are so many sets of doors to go through and too much traffic to fit through there, it's faster to take the street most of the time. The other issue I have is that it's deserted outside office hours, just adds to the ghost town effect after 6.
Mountain Man
Senior Member
I'm hearing reports of a lot of house cleaning in the Planning department at City Hall, lots of senior staff let go. I wonder if our friend Kora is still there...
Bertie Wooster
New Member
About 22 positions - most were inspectors due to workloads, currently.