Calgary's Homeless

[Questioneverything]

I am far from an expert on homeless issues, but to me it's always seemed like homeless people could be grouped into roughly three categories as the primary cause of their homeless situation..
1 - people with mental illness
2 - people with substance addiction issues
3 - people down on their luck, and with a few breaks could get back out of it

Some of those issues overlap obviously, but those kind of seemed like the three main causes. Maybe someone with better knowledge can break it down better, as I'm sure it's not that simple.

Situation #1 is the most difficult situation to remedy, I'm not sure if there are any good solutions for that situation other than to help as much as you can. You can't force people into treatment.
Situation #2 is the one that has always intrigued me. There has got to be a better way to help people in that situation. I recall Calgary was going to try out using a 'drug court' system - basically a court system where people committing crimes because of their addiction get sentenced to a rehab facility instead of jail. Not sure what ever happened with that. I think if we could get Situation #2 dealt with somehow it would also help with Situation #3

I would be an expert on homelessness and it’s causes. If society supports a justice system designed to result a win/lose that implies the guy that’s benefiting off a real problem has a house the guy who suffers from a problem that still exists can’t afford a home. If you have a medical system that’s designed to cause and create diseases profit the mentally I’ll people would be the medical professionals. Ever notice how government polices tends to increase mental illness? Covid was a great example since 2020 government did everything to cause and create mental illness and watch it growing now. When you see homeless in your community blame the people who have houses as the problem

 

[YourBoy007]

'Significant concerns': Province scraps plans for Drop-In Centre consumption site

Alberta's associate minister of mental health and addiction confirms proposed plans for a supervised consumption site in Calgary's East Village have been halted.

calgary.ctvnews.ca

Ellis says the government would support the establishment of a 'medical detox and a dynamic outreach and overdose response in the community' should the Drop-In Centre elect to create one.

FUCKIN' RIGHTS!!

 

[FriendlyDrunks]

Certainly does raise issues for the UCP if they've chosen to both shutter the previous consumption site while cancelling their new planned sites.

 

[Atticus]

I can't believe I have to say this: the solution to homelessness and addiction is not to oppress them more, it only makes it harder for people to break the poverty cycle.

So what exactly is the solution? We don't oppress them, we just let them do what they're doing, and the poverty cycle will be broken? How has that been working so far?
Let's not oppress people like Jeffry Dahmer either, after all it's not their fault they have mental issues. My wife's father was an alcoholic who used to beat his wife and kids, but is he at fault or is it the alcohol? Is anyone who commits crime or is a bad person actually at fault?

And maybe just have empathy for people in difficult situations you don't understand

Maybe also have empathy for those who lived or worked near these shelters. For so many people it's easy to be an armchair social worker from afar.

This is the crux of the issue. Demanding that we stop "tolerating these people" and "hold them responsible" doesn't do anything. They're not just going to vanish into thin air. Plenty of homeless people already cycle in and out of jail.

As someone who worked a couple of blocks from the drop in centre for the better part of the decade and lived across the street from the Alpha House for a year, I would ask you what your solution is? Maybe you'd like to move into Vetro for a year and experience the joys of living in that part of Calgary.
If you're not going to hold them responsible by putting them in jail or rehab for an extended period, what then is a better option? Doing nothing hasn't exactly helped, it's only gotten worse, here and in every other city in the country because people would rather just have empathy and not oppress them.

I’m generally as much a left wing socialist type as anyone but sometimes one can become jaded when exposed to things too much or for too long, and I'll admit I've become jaded. Over the years I've heard numerous people give their sympathies and opinions to these situations, but those people are never exposed to the realities out there, and on top of that aren't prepared to actually do anything themselves.

 

[YourBoy007]

This could work! $20/day to enter a treatment program. They would have to ensure there's no loopholes so the addicts don't take advantage of the system. The pay structure could also be tweaked to ensure maximum incentive to stick with the program. But in implementing this, they would have to eliminate safe-supply and SCS's. You can't have one program incentivizing treatment and have other programs incentivizing drug use.

Job placement programs would be great too. Once they're deemed clean, they would be automatically placed in this program. These programs would have big operating costs in the beginning, but as the crisis dies down, it would become pretty damn cheap to continue operations. Nonetheless, these programs would always have a huge net benefit on our economy and our society. Think of the cost to the police, EMS, and firefighter services alone that the addicts and homeless have on our municipalities.

Furthermore, these handpicked advocates, really need to stop with affordable housing as a major contributor to homelessness. That aint the problem. They say it's the problem to distract any blame from the disastrous results of their wild safe supply policies.

Advocates propose paying most vulnerable $20/day to enter drug treatment | Globalnews.ca

The $600 per month would go into people’s pockets and not towards food or accommodation costs, giving them something to work with when they leave treatment and attempt recovery.

globalnews.ca

 

[Atticus]

I'm down with whatever it takes to solve the drug issue. At the end of the day, that's the biggest issue and if there was a way to get people off their addictions it would be a game changer.

 

[darwink]

if there was a way to get people off their addictions it would be a game changer.

There is for around 35% of people who use drugs. For them, resourcing is the problem. The other 65% who can go between 6 hours and 18 months without using drugs but who will always use drugs to some degree we need to try very (and continue to do) different things and the first barrier there to implementation is society’s morals.

Perhaps emerging protocols like ketamine and mdma treatment will chip away at the 65%, and others will show up over time. But not addressing the 65% is a choice which causes plenty of suffering.

 

[Cowtown]

There is for around 35% of people who use drugs. For them, resourcing is the problem. The other 65% who can go between 6 hours and 18 months without using drugs but who will always use drugs to some degree we need to try very (and continue to do) different things and the first barrier there to implementation is society’s morals.

Perhaps emerging protocols like ketamine and mdma treatment will chip away at the 65%, and others will show up over time. But not addressing the 65% is a choice which causes plenty of suffering.

Are the 35% of the drug users people who use drugs, people who need drugs more often than every 6 hours? I'm just clarifying the difference between the 35% and the 65%.

 

[darwink]

Are the 35% of the drug users people who use drugs, people who need drugs more often than every 6 hours? I'm just clarifying the difference between the 35% and the 65%.

35% are people who can get and stay sober.

 

[Silence&Motion]

If you're not going to hold them responsible by putting them in jail or rehab for an extended period, what then is a better option? Doing nothing hasn't exactly helped, it's only gotten worse, here and in every other city in the country because people would rather just have empathy and not oppress them.

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about having empathy. I simply presented the real dilemma that homeless people already get routinely arrested. We cannot just arrest our way out of this problem. You can't demand a "better option" when you haven't even suggested a solution yourself. Raging about the issue is not a solution. Demanding people with severe mental illness and addiction take "responsibility" for themselves is not a solution. You might as well demand for the sun to rise at midnight.

I have already mentioned an obvious solution repeatedly on this thread: making stable housing available to people who are experiencing longterm chronic homelessness. In fact, this is Alberta's policy on paper, but there's been very little money to make it happen. Putting people in housing is much, much cheaper than putting them in jail. Studies also show that providing housing first (without imposing conditions like sobriety) is the most effective way to keep peopled housed over the long term, and it improves mental health and reduces substance use (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3490566/).

Furthermore, these handpicked advocates, really need to stop with affordable housing as a major contributor to homelessness. That aint the problem. They say it's the problem to distract any blame from the disastrous results of their wild safe supply policies.

[Citation needed]

 

[FriendlyDrunks]

Going to throw this in here as my wife brought it up last night when discussing these issues.

It's the Great Rat Experiment!
Apparently for years drug testing was done with solitary rats. Every single time the rats would choose the drugged food and eventually overdose. For years that was the prevailing knowledge.
A more recent study with multiple rats found very different results when rats were given the option of social interaction.

Obviously, these are rats and not people, but they share similar social characteristics. A particular note I found interesting was those rats who had abstinence forced on them were more likely to relapse and avoid social interaction.

Rats Prefer Social Interaction to Heroin or Methamphetamine | National Institute on Drug Abuse

This study showed that rats will forgo heroin and methamphetamine in favor of spending time with another rat. It also highlights the importance of incorporating voluntary choice between drugs and social rewards in drug addiction research.

nida.nih.gov

 

[artvandelay]

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about having empathy. I simply presented the real dilemma that homeless people already get routinely arrested. We cannot just arrest our way out of this problem. You can't demand a "better option" when you haven't even suggested a solution yourself. Raging about the issue is not a solution. Demanding people with severe mental illness and addiction take "responsibility" for themselves is not a solution. You might as well demand for the sun to rise at midnight.

Keep in mind that the mental illness is usually caused by the addiction. Solve the addiction issue and you solve the mental illness.

 

[Rollerstud98]

Keep in mind that the mental illness is usually caused by the addiction. Solve the addiction issue and you solve the mental illness.

I’m no expert but I would say that this seems backwards. Sure drug use does not help with the mental illness but the mental illness was there before the drug use/addiction and often leads to homelessness and addiction.

 

[ByeByeBaby]

I have already mentioned an obvious solution repeatedly on this thread: making stable housing available to people who are experiencing longterm chronic homelessness. In fact, this is Alberta's policy on paper, but there's been very little money to make it happen. Putting people in housing is much, much cheaper than putting them in jail. Studies also show that providing housing first (without imposing conditions like sobriety) is the most effective way to keep peopled housed over the long term, and it improves mental health and reduces substance use (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3490566/).

There's even a study in Calgary showing the success of housing first approaches. What we need to do is to scale them up, and provide better non-housing support for people with problems like mental illness and substance abuse, and more supportive communities.

 

[artvandelay]

I’m no expert but I would say that this seems backwards. Sure drug use does not help with the mental illness but the mental illness was there before the drug use/addiction and often leads to homelessness and addiction.

Read up on substance induced psychosis - it's not a coincidence that we've seen an increase in random violence and social disorder alongside the rise in meth over the last decade.