Calgary's Downtown Dilemma

[ByeByeBaby]

8 corner-ish offices. They must, somehow, be counting the corners where the two sides of the figure 8 meet?

Edit: Read the source article, 6 in the correct amount of corner office. Wikipedia misquotes the Calgary Herald article. I found the section on building form to be accurate. I don't love the simple marble as much as the writer (John Glassco) but he seems to know the problems the +15 can and will bring to the downtown.

That's an interesting article. Don't know if you looked in the rest of that issue of the Herald (Sat. Sept 16, 1978), but this was on page A1:

Taking the downtown as being the five downtown communities (core, EV, WV, Eau Claire, Chinatown), the downtown would continue to hover below 10,000 until almost 20 years later; it was 19,339 in the 2021 Census. As a proportion of the city's population, the downtown had dropped from over 2% in the early 70s to 1.6% in 1978. It dropped as low as 1.25% in 1984 and the turn of the millennium; it's been hovering in the 1.4% range for the last 15+ years.

 

[Surrealplaces]

Great find, I had no idea downtown population was of interest to the city until at least the millennium. One thing that really sticks out for me was that downtown housing was losing an average of 88 units per year. It doesn't sound like much at first, but given how little amount there is to begin with, 88 units per year is a lot.

The fact that the downtown population has almost doubled in the last 20 years is very encouraging. With projects, like First & Park, and the office conversions, we should see continued growth.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

It's interesting to see people could see the problems that were going to plague our downtown. The article on Shell Centre talked about the problems the +15 could cause for the street-level and that other article shows a mayor in the 70's had been trying to build residential downtown.

I am curious what the civic center he's so excited about though...

But anyhow, this just goes to show you we shouldn't be shocked with the state of our downtown. Certain people saw the problems we just didn't listen to them. I assume people just got excited when oil took off and companies started building a lot of office towers. Not to mention its pretty easy to sell +15, people still love it. But they also wonder why streets downtown are so deserted.

 

[JonnyCanuck]

One thing that really sticks out for me was that downtown housing was losing an average of 88 units per year. It doesn't sound like much at first, but given how little amount there is to begin with, 88 units per year is a lot.

The loss would have been single family homes and perhaps some older tenements. They occupied future space for commercial development which was all the rage back in the 70's & 80's.
Unfortunately, mixed use development was not a thing 40-50 years ago when the downtown building boom was on. If it was, there would be a lot more high rise residential mixed with office & retail throughout the core.

 

[CBBarnett]

It's interesting to see people could see the problems that were going to plague our downtown. The article on Shell Centre talked about the problems the +15 could cause for the street-level and that other article shows a mayor in the 70's had been trying to build residential downtown.

I am curious what the civic center he's so excited about though...

I think the civic centre that was mentioned is what became the Municipal Building, Olympic Plaza and Arts Commons. Civic Centres were all the rage in 1960-80s planning - however most underperformed like the office-centric downtown thinking at the time because there was little mixing of uses and the importance of all-day residential population nearby was not yet appreciated for activation of spaces and keeping shops open.

Part of the 1960s-1980s 5-pack every big city downtown got in Canada:

• Huge boom in downtown office
• Civic cluster usually including city hall and some administration buildings
• A "central market" type thing, if historic ones didn't already exist - Eau Claire Market (Calgary), The Forks (Winnipeg), Granville Island (Vancouver)
• Some sort of pedestrian mall system above or below grade - +15 (Calgary), PATH (Toronto), Underground City (Montreal), Edmonton's skyways
• Entrenchment of the idea people drive to work from the suburbs and inner city road expansion, many roads converted to one-ways

I didn't add to the list as there's fewer examples, but a lot of cities flirted with pedestrianizing streets at this time, often directly to combat the perceived consequences of the above list as well as the loss of retail to suburban malls. Stephen Ave (Calgary) and Spark Street (Ottawa) are the two prominent examples.

These had mixed levels of success partly because of the same failure to undervalue mixed use and local residential population, but also partly because these streets tried to be more "destination" than integrated pedestrians transportation networks. It's the whole issue Stephen Ave has by have no direct links to the +15, nor any pedestrianization of a route to connect to nearby residential population in the Beltline.

 

[Mountain Man]

Those old articles are fascinating! Lots of intelligent people saw the issues we face today a long way off, but were ignored in favour of money! Now that the oil industry is done growing and we are finally diversifying, lets hope we have more time to pay attention to them and build a proper 24/7 downtown!

 

[CalgaryTiger]

lets hope we have more time to pay attention to them

Simply because I don't know, who would we say are the prominent voices in the city talking about how to build a proper downtown?

CMLC seems to be doing the work, but who are the champions pushing us forward?

I remember some mayoral platforms from election mentioning vague ideas and support for things but its hard for a mayor to push their platforms through, its just not how our cities are run.

Side Note: Not a fan of the guy but I've seen some interesting commentary on why Doug Ford's idea of 'Strong Mayors' can actually have a positive impact on city building.

 

[JonnyCanuck]

The DP application for United Place conversion was filed. 81 residential units + child care + restaurant with outdoor patio. Oddly, the address it is under (395 7 St SW) is different than what is current for that building.

395 7 St SW · 395 7 St SW, Calgary, AB T2P 3T4, Canada

395 7 St SW, Calgary, AB T2P 3T4, Canada

www.google.ca

 

[Calgcouver]

Simply because I don't know, who would we say are the prominent voices in the city talking about how to build a proper downtown?

CMLC seems to be doing the work, but who are the champions pushing us forward?

I remember some mayoral platforms from election mentioning vague ideas and support for things but its hard for a mayor to push their platforms through, its just not how our cities are run.

Side Note: Not a fan of the guy but I've seen some interesting commentary on why Doug Ford's idea of 'Strong Mayors' can actually have a positive impact on city building.

People championing it at the City are those implementing the greater downtown plan, I did give some feedback directly to them.

There is a lot of media-friendly talking points from the city about how we better downtown, but very little detail (ie street scape master plans, policy to better the public realm).

CMLC seems to have a little bit of vision for revitalization, but the outcomes I’ve seen recently are meh.

Frankly I think that the City and it’s partners have largely got the fundamentals that would improve the downtown wrong. There is limited vision that would shake up the status quo and much of the City’s statutory policy doesn’t support the changes that they talk about. They seem better at declaring the need to do things in media and for economic boosterism than creating a policy framework to execute on the broad strategies they profess. I’d love to be wrong, but history has proven otherwise so far. This City is still run by traffic engineers really.

What feels like an appropriate way to describe the political approach is “Downtown is central to Calgarys economic recovery. Now here is a non-statutory, vague piece of policy that won’t defer from the status quo.”

Love the historic news articles provides great context

 

[Mountain Man]

While driving is clearly too much of a focus still, the city is making progress. The cycle track downtown is pretty decent now, with a lot more people open to the idea of closing a traffic lane for cycling or patios. They are demanding better public realm treatments for new developments, with wider sidewalks and better lighting. There are new parks opening in the beltline with better paving and lighting facing the streets. There is a long way to go, but having more people living downtown should help shift the focus away from commuters and more towards residents. 20 years ago when I started working downtown, it was literally a ghost town after 6PM, now parts of it are quite busy well into the night.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

They seem better at declaring the need to do things in media and for economic boosterism than creating a policy framework to execute on the broad strategies they profess.

Is this not to do with the fact that the Mayor has one vote and not much power otherwise on council to steer the city's direction?

Ford's 'Strong Mayor' model is something to look at. It would really allow a mayor to steer the city in a certain direction (since they would be able to appoint city staff in high-ranking roles). Unelected city staff play a outsized role in how the city conducts its business. A seemingly conservative city elects progressive mayors for a reason, I say let the horses run, that's why we elect them.

 

[artvandelay]

Is this not to do with the fact that the Mayor has one vote and not much power otherwise on council to steer the city's direction?

Ford's 'Strong Mayor' model is something to look at. It would really allow a mayor to steer the city in a certain direction (since they would be able to appoint city staff in high-ranking roles). Unelected city staff play a outsized role in how the city conducts its business. A seemingly conservative city elects progressive mayors for a reason, I say let the horses run, that's why we elect them.

Nenshi, sure... but I shudder at the thought of giving any more power to our current mayor.

 

[UrbanWarrior]

Shell would make for a perfect conversion project. 8 corner suites per floor as someone mentioned, pretty damn good location on third street between Eau Claire and Stephen Avenue where we desperately need more residents/hotel guests/etc. and highly accessible to all modes of transportation. If an investor came in wanting to make a go of this, there’s no way the city would be crazy enough to not allow the parking relaxation.

 

[Surrealplaces]

While driving is clearly too much of a focus still, the city is making progress. The cycle track downtown is pretty decent now, with a lot more people open to the idea of closing a traffic lane for cycling or patios. They are demanding better public realm treatments for new developments, with wider sidewalks and better lighting. There are new parks opening in the beltline with better paving and lighting facing the streets. There is a long way to go, but having more people living downtown should help shift the focus away from commuters and more towards residents. 20 years ago when I started working downtown, it was literally a ghost town after 6PM, now parts of it are quite busy well into the night.

Definitely some progress made over the past decade. Most of that progress for the inner city core has been in the ring hoods of Beltline/Bridgeland/Kensington/Inglewood and Mission, but some definite bright spots for downtown itself.

These are the things that stick out:

-Cycle tracks. They've been a game changer for downtown, allowing cyclists, skateboarders and scooter users a way to get around or through downtown safely. They allow good multi-modal cross traffic between the ring neighborhoods....something that never existed before unless you were in a car
-Peace Bridge and plaza. Another game changer, as it's arguably the busiest destination place downtown, outside of Stephen Ave.
-East Village. Another big win for the downtown, and a solid anchor for the east end of the Riverwalk pathway. The addition of the Library, Studio Bell and Jump has been big.
-Riverwalk pathway from 14th to Inglewood. Aside from the recent construction near Centre street, this has been a massive success.
-Honorable mention to the 4th ST SE underpass. I feel like it's had pretty big impact also. For me personally, it's so much easier to go from Beltline to EV, having the underpass /w cycle track.
-Honorable mention to MOCA.

 

[Surrealplaces]

We're doing a good job at improving downtown around the edges of the core. We just need to get some improvements in the mid section. Currently, outside of Stephen Ave/The Core, it's mostly a cluster of office towers, which makes it difficult. I think the residential conversions will help get things going.