Scotia Place | 36.85m | 11s | CSEC | HOK

Do you support the proposal for the new arena?

  • Yes

    Votes: 103 67.3%

  • No

    Votes: 40 26.1%

  • Maybe

    Votes: 10 6.5%
  • Total voters
    153
Dārayavauš said:
This would be a non starter idea from the Flames though. This is not 1982 anymore and no one wants this. If it is part of what they are getting, then this just goes back to the city. It will never be allowed to happen. Gutting the public realm for parking in a downtown revitalized area is utterly moronic.
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Yeah, this would never be allowed to happen by the City. Gutting the public realm for parking for private elite benefit in a downtown revitalization area would go against everything the City needs and stands for. Oh, hey, let's see what's going on in the news:

Earlier this year, the city built a new parking lot on land owned by Remington Development Corporation on 11th Avenue S.E.

That lot, worth $1.5 million, will be used by the Calgary Stampede.

The arrangement was part of the city's agreement with the owners of the Calgary Flames and the Stampede to build a new downtown arena in Victoria Park.
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Earlier this year, the city built a new parking lot on land owned by Remington Development Corporation on 11th Avenue S.E.
That lot, worth $1.5 million, will be used by the Calgary Stampede.
The arrangement was part of the city's agreement with the owners of the Calgary Flames and the Stampede to build a new downtown arena in Victoria Park.
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At least they did not pave it which indicates that no one expects it to exist for very long. Between this lot, Platform and assorted other surface parking lots within 3-4 blocks of the Stampede grounds, there is plenty of public parking for any event. Personally, I am fed up with all of the focus on 'parking downtown'. When the final plans for the Event Centre and surrounding development are finished, I don't want to see an image anywhere near there of a surface parking lot.
 
JonnyCanuck said:
At least they did not pave it which indicates that no one expects it to exist for very long. Between this lot, Platform and assorted other surface parking lots within 3-4 blocks of the Stampede grounds, there is plenty of public parking for any event. Personally, I am fed up with all of the focus on 'parking downtown'. When the final plans for the Event Centre and surrounding development are finished, I don't want to see an image anywhere near there of a surface parking lot.
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The endless parking downtown narrative (and the endless office vacancy narrative) thing is a product of a long held bias that downtown Calgary is only a place to visit and only by those that drive their car, as well as only a play place for corporate interests to play out. The arena saga is often so infuriating because it is so unashamedly in support of continuing those biases.

Think about it - at this point, the best case scenario many of us urban types are hoping for is an arena that is attractive, functional, has usable public space and that surface parking lots disappear sooner than later. The worst case scenario is not actually that different than today - an uglier, less functional building with no public space and parking spots that stick around - Saddledome 2.0 essentially. Both cost $200M+ of direct and indirect public subsidy.

However from the point of view of organizations with the bias of what downtown and arenas are for (e.g. The Flames, The Stampede etc.), most of the "best case" outcomes of the urban types aren't necessary. Under any scenario the corporate interests are taken care of - they are getting $200M+ in public money already - and the parking lots have no need to develop soon.

This is all the more reason why a move to take out the CMLC or any project controls that keeps the best case outcomes a priority should be raising alarm bells and resisted at all costs. When push comes to shove - as they do with any complex project - the old biases and incentives are so easily reverted back to corporate and commuter interests if there isn't a counterforce to resist them.
 
I have to agree with @Dārayavauš. As much as I hate the idea of the wealthy Flames' owners throwing their weight around with public money, I doubt that they are opposed to street facing retail and a strong public realm as part of the arena. At the end of the day they want people to spend their money at the arena, whether on the inside or street level. I hope I am correct though
 
Disraeli said:
I have to agree with @Dārayavauš. As much as I hate the idea of the wealthy Flames' owners throwing their weight around with public money, I doubt that they are opposed to street facing retail and a strong public realm as part of the arena. At the end of the day they want people to spend their money at the arena, whether on the inside or street level. I hope I am correct though
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A commercial enterprise always has a better sense of what people want than a planner or any government agency.

For that reason, granting the Flames organizaion more control over traffic flow or parking isn't much of a concession. That area will remain a sea of emptiness for a long time after the Event Centre opens. If and when demand materializes, the parking lots are east to redevelop. I would have supported giving the Flames title to substantial tracts of City owned land instead of the City's financial contribution. The City hasn't been able to jumpstart development in what is probably the least desirable location of the inner city, so the Flames couldn't possibly do worse.
 
My point is that the commercial and public interests of the arena development most likely align in terms of street oriented retail. When they don't, I can't think of a worse force for urban development, and the public generally, than unchecked commercial enterprise.
 
100% im taking the under on the final result. there is no way ill be happy with the outcome of this shit show. an anti sports mayor vs a regressive team owner. makes me want to keep the saddledome and save us from another 40yrs of stagnation. walk away and fight another day.
 
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1875 said:
100% im taking the under on the final result. there is no way ill be happy with the outcome of this shit show. an anti sports mayor vs a regressive team owner. makes me want to keep the saddledome and save us from another 40yrs of stagnation. walk away and fight another day.
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He's not anti-sports. The Flames wanted taxpayers to bankroll a private enterprise, and he didn't cave. Look at the past offers the City gave, they weren't unfair.

(2014) CTV - Nenshi weighs in on new NHL arena debate
(2015) Herald - Mayor Nenshi's statement on the Flames arena project
(2016) Globe & Mail - Calgary Mayor Nenshi holds the line on arena project
(2017) Global - Calgary mayor Nenshi releases details of city’s latest arena offer
(2018) Canadian Press - Calgary city council invites Flames back to table to talk new arena

I have my issues with Nenshi, but he acted in the best interest of tax payers throughout the arena deal. Some public funding was inevitable, but it's a private, for-profit organization, and their goal was to squeeze as much tax money from the city as they could. It's clearly not the mayors fault the Flames pursued that for so long.
 
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a politician advocating to host the olympics has zero to do with sports, it does have alot to do with self aggrandizement and corruption
 
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ByeByeBaby said:
Yeah, this would never be allowed to happen by the City. Gutting the public realm for parking for private elite benefit in a downtown revitalization area would go against everything the City needs and stands for. Oh, hey, let's see what's going on in the news:
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I recall this earlier, I believe this is only temporary right? So that parking lot will be getting developed eventually.
 
I live in the Beltline and received an Email from the Community Association. They are very concerned that CMLC is being squeezed out and have the same fears that have already been expressed by others in this thread. They are encouraging residents of the Beltline to contact the City and express those concerns.
 
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