Scotia Place | 36.85m | 11s | CSEC | HOK

Do you support the proposal for the new arena?

  • Yes

    Votes: 103 67.3%

  • No

    Votes: 40 26.1%

  • Maybe

    Votes: 10 6.5%
  • Total voters
    153
O-tac said:
Yeah it's strange how many new members coincidentally post something defending Smith :rolleyes:. Didn't she make some pronouncement that their might be government incentive programs that don't exist currently to help build a hotel? At the time I recall people on here saying that would guarantee no movement on any active development cause they would want to wait and see if their is government money before moving ahead.
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Not sticking up for Smith (personally not a fan) or any government. I just shake my head at how EVERYTHING gets politicized. Believe it or not, business decisions and conversations happen outside Internet forums, in private. And, believe it or not, these decisions are based on business fundamentals that go well beyond government policy (or what somebody on an Internet forum “thinks” should happen).
 
darwink said:
When building a pro forma every bit helps, especially firm numbers like a government program versus crystal ball numbers like interest rates. A small change can make a huge difference. One could let’s say mandate ATB to make construction loans at 1% less for hotel projects. I’d probably want a subsidy like that versus $s up front or a property tax incentive in the back end. Target the project valley of death directly not indirectly.
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I get that every bit helps, but we can't blame government for not providing an incentive. How much of an inventive should there be to make people happy? How much of an incentive will piss off people for government funding private investment? Should we blame Smith for choosing hotels over shools, or schools over hotels? Should she just fund everything? Where's all this funding coming from? Should our taxes then go up, and then blame her for that?

Sounds like a lose-lose situation for Smith, always gotta blame.
 
Purely speculation, but how much of it relates to the type of hotels that CMLC wants to build. Calgary doesn't have many premium hotels (Dorian, Fairmont? really the only ones) and the most recent one under construction is a Hilton Garden Inn. Maybe they are negotiating to have a Le Germain, instead of an Alt, or an JW Marriott (what ICE District has) instead of a Courtyard.
 
MichaelS said:
That is a pretty recent announcement. How do you explain the 2 years prior to that with zero hotel prospects despite the BMO being under construction? And now the 1.5 years of assurance that a new arena would go in?
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And the 25 years before that - as this and a few other threads have exhaustively discussed, Victoria Park is a giant dumping ground for politically-aligned capital and government spending for nearly half a century. In today's dollars, we must be approaching $2B in public investment in the area over that period.

Yet, no hotels and minimal private development - it's almost as if these publicly-financed arena and event districts don't trigger private development at all?

Ironically, the first publicly-financed project that *might* actually work to trigger that sought after development is the provincial rail plan. Depending on how and if that cocktail-napkin sketch of a plan comes together, it could actually improve accessibility to the area to such a degree dense development is attractive. At a cost of another few billion dollars of course.
MichaelS said:
The problem is believing the sales pitch that these large government funded projects actually generate positive new development. That is how they are sold to the public, but it is pretty clearly BS.
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Bingo.
 
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trtcttc said:
Purely speculation, but how much of it relates to the type of hotels that CMLC wants to build. Calgary doesn't have many premium hotels (Dorian, Fairmont? really the only ones) and the most recent one under construction is a Hilton Garden Inn. Maybe they are negotiating to have a Le Germain, instead of an Alt, or an JW Marriott (what ICE District has) instead of a Courtyard.
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Just noting, Calgary already has a Le Germain downtown across from the Calgary Tower on 9th/centre st.
 
Wow, this thread took a turn.....Why would a hotel builder choose NOW to build something? To stare at a massive construction site in an otherwise soulless neighborhood, where you are relying 100% on BMO business? It makes a ton of sense to have a hotel there for 2027....it's 2024, this whole redevelopment is a process, until that arena is out of the ground and potential developers can see exactly what is happening...not much is going to happen.

As previously mentioned, this isn't going to be a Hampton Inn. It would be a 4+ star hotel...the economic and physical conditions for that type of project to get underway are unrealistic for another year or two.
 
Tothewest said:
Wow, this thread took a turn.....Why would a hotel builder choose NOW to build something? To stare at a massive construction site in an otherwise soulless neighborhood, where you are relying 100% on BMO business? It makes a ton of sense to have a hotel there for 2027....it's 2024, this whole redevelopment is a process, until that arena is out of the ground and potential developers can see exactly what is happening...not much is going to happen.

As previously mentioned, this isn't going to be a Hampton Inn. It would be a 4+ star hotel...the economic and physical conditions for that type of project to get underway are unrealistic for another year or two.
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No Hotel developer is going to stare at a huge lot getting built into an event center. By the time someone gets their shit together and gets construction going on their hotel it will be finished no sooner than Scotia place
 
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Are they at least building the foundation/parking garage up to the surface with the arena? I doubt it, two separate private developers I guess.
 
Golfing guy said:
No Hotel developer is going to stare at a huge lot getting built into an event center. By the time someone gets their shit together and gets construction going on their hotel it will be finished no sooner than Scotia place
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This. I'll add to that...

1) I think the lot next to Cowboys Casino is a poor location for a BMO hotel, bad connections for a convention hotel....it should shift south towards the construction staging locations, closer to the new BMO.
2) So much of the area redevelopment is contingent on the streetscape of SP....I think over the next 12-18 months we could see opportunities at 12th/4th, 12th/5th, developers can now see the the offerings and locations of bars, Food hall, ect... which helps immensely on planning their own projects
 
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