Scotia Place | 36.85m | 11s | CSEC | HOK

[CalgaryTiger]

You are missing one crucial detail - we have the oldest and most visited national park in Canada on our doorstep. Generally, tourists fly to Calgary and leave immediately for the mountains. The tourist stream is already established, we just need to figure out a way to keep them here for a few days before heading west.

Makes you wonder if the regional rail connection being studied would help or hurt the city. Will tourists get off the train downtown or stay and go straight to Banff. Answer is probably a bit of both but maybe more people stay than did before because any Banff Shuttle from the airport doesn't stop in downtown Calgary.

lean into the western theme

Design is too generic, it could be in any city in North America. You could lean into the western theme, mountain theme (like Canmore really has). Missed opportunity for sure.

 

[MissingMiddle]

Makes you wonder if the regional rail connection being studied would help or hurt the city. Will tourists get off the train downtown or stay and go straight to Banff. Answer is probably a bit of both but maybe more people stay than did before because any Banff Shuttle from the airport doesn't stop in downtown Calgary.

It might lead to more people leaving faster, but more people would be going to Banff if there was regular, affordable, high-speed rail service. A smaller piece of a bigger pie kind of problem.

This doesn't mention that the station would be downtown, where previously those people had no reason to go downtown at all. In addition, good rail service will be cheaper on our road/bridge/parking infrastructure, and fewer emissions in the process.

 

[darwink]

Makes you wonder if the regional rail connection being studied would help or hurt the city. Will tourists get off the train downtown or stay and go straight to Banff. Answer is probably a bit of both but maybe more people stay than did before because any Banff Shuttle from the airport doesn't stop in downtown Calgary.

Help. A lot. CED did a study on this. It increases visitation nights in Calgary. Huge numbers. Even the most conservative case is huge, a 65% spending increase in Calgary over a no rail scenario.

Calgary-Banff rail on track for economic growth | Calgary Economic

www.calgaryeconomicdevelopment.com

 

[Mountain Man]

Most people likely rent a car at the airport and head straight to Banff already. Adding a train stop downtown would likely incentivize people to check the city out a bit more if anything.

 

[darwink]

Most people likely rent a car at the airport and head straight to Banff already. Adding a train stop downtown would likely incentivize people to check the city out a bit more if anything.

And GPS puts them on the ring road. With a forced transfer downtown even if you don't get a night this trip, you might induce another trip. You also add convention adjacent hotel nights. It is just so much winning. It has been a bit unnerving to me the middling level of interest this project has from the province and the city (the feds will play in a big way but don't move on their own) given the huge benefits.

To relate to this thread, even event centre things. The out of town visitation when any trip to Calgary can tag on a trip to Banff, never use a cab/uber/rent a car, all of a sudden you have an even more appealing destination package. Any appeal added isn't just cumulative, more tourism amenities build off each other.

 

[trtcttc]

Isn't the current plan by a private developer to build a YYC-Banff train? Personally I hope the train ends up starting in Downtown, and depending on travel times, some people may also stay a few nights in Calgary. Obviously this is still playing out but if Calgary does see sustained population increases, I can see the downtown area becoming much more of a mixed live/work area. Being from Toronto, the transformation of the Entertainment District, and now the East Bayfront over the last 5 years has been incredible. From a "not so great part of town" to "booming with young people", happened over a few short years. Calgary will always be lower density but if they start studying/building the train now, by the time it's built, downtown will already be much more vibrant than it is now.

 

[haltcatchfire]

I feel it is a missed opportunity to not lean into the western theme hard for our urban design on the Stampede Grounds. Everything from 12th Avenue through to the 17th Avenue connector. Make the grounds feel like a bit of a theme park, with wooden plank sidewalks and swinging saloon doors. Put in a big cowboy bar (either move Cowboys over to front the street, or see if Ranchmans wants to move onto the grounds, etc...) a cafe that serves mini donuts and deep fried oreos and turkey legs year round, etc... Basically, allow tourists to get a taste of Stampede, even if they can't make it for the actual 10 days in July.

Another "high street" of patterned concrete and the odd retail shop (or none at all in the case of the BMO centre) will not be much of an enterainment district, as it will look exactly like 2-3 other districts in every other city already. Why not lean into the thing that is unique to Calgary, and may be something that actually creates some interest for out of towners to come check out.

I'd open up a fun house and call it Random Rectangles.

 

[darwink]

Isn't the current plan by a private developer to build a YYC-Banff train?

Yes, but has evolved from a standalone project P3 (downtown Calgary-Banff) to a P3 with an availability payment and an asset transfer at the end that goes from YYC to downtown to Banff (the YYC connection is expensive and requires a lot of heavy works, but provides a lot of benefits).

Personally I hope the train ends up starting in Downtown

That's the plan.

 

[YYCguy]

I feel it is a missed opportunity to not lean into the western theme hard for our urban design on the Stampede Grounds. Everything from 12th Avenue through to the 17th Avenue connector. Make the grounds feel like a bit of a theme park, with wooden plank sidewalks and swinging saloon doors. Put in a big cowboy bar (either move Cowboys over to front the street, or see if Ranchmans wants to move onto the grounds, etc...) a cafe that serves mini donuts and deep fried oreos and turkey legs year round, etc... Basically, allow tourists to get a taste of Stampede, even if they can't make it for the actual 10 days in July.

Another "high street" of patterned concrete and the odd retail shop (or none at all in the case of the BMO centre) will not be much of an enterainment district, as it will look exactly like 2-3 other districts in every other city already. Why not lean into the thing that is unique to Calgary, and may be something that actually creates some interest for out of towners to come check out.

Bravo! Well said! And I agree 100%!

 

[Silence&Motion]

I feel it is a missed opportunity to not lean into the western theme hard for our urban design on the Stampede Grounds. Everything from 12th Avenue through to the 17th Avenue connector. Make the grounds feel like a bit of a theme park, with wooden plank sidewalks and swinging saloon doors. Put in a big cowboy bar (either move Cowboys over to front the street, or see if Ranchmans wants to move onto the grounds, etc...) a cafe that serves mini donuts and deep fried oreos and turkey legs year round, etc... Basically, allow tourists to get a taste of Stampede, even if they can't make it for the actual 10 days in July.

Another "high street" of patterned concrete and the odd retail shop (or none at all in the case of the BMO centre) will not be much of an enterainment district, as it will look exactly like 2-3 other districts in every other city already. Why not lean into the thing that is unique to Calgary, and may be something that actually creates some interest for out of towners to come check out.

Cochrane has us beat in this regard.

 

[maestro]

The flames are paying to use it the arena and the payments wont pay back the capital. convention centre clients are paying to use it and the payments wont pay back the capital.

What’s the difference?

Owning an asset that depreciates by 90% at the time of opening and all the liability that comes with it is not an asset. Ownership is for the hockey crazed enthusiasts to believe they got something out of the deal beyond a billion dollar community/ practice arena and tickets averaging $176. The naming rights could go for $10 million per year. That's more than half the annual mortgage payment.

Calgary is a cosmopolitan metropolis with the highest standard for civil rights. A western theme with plank sidewalks is a tacky Disneyfied version of the wild west. The real thing was terrible.

 

[konradiical]

I hope they relocate or rebuild the big four around the new district elsewhere. it looks ugly and if that area is gonna be a parking wasteland reserved for stampedes, might as well put all the buildings together since they get all-year use. Also, could give the stampede more room since they lost a lot for the BMO expansion?

As for the "western theme," i agree it would be very tacky for the new buildings. But it would be cool if they maybe modernized and expanded the Weadickville area since it already has that theme. Build more buildings similar to that style and have a little western main street that could be used for events all summer long.

 

[CT (Chinese_T)]

I hope they relocate or rebuild the big four around the new district elsewhere. it looks ugly and if that area is gonna be a parking wasteland reserved for stampedes, might as well put all the buildings together since they get all-year use. Also, could give the stampede more room since they lost a lot for the BMO expansion?

As for the "western theme," i agree it would be very tacky for the new buildings. But it would be cool if they maybe modernized and expanded the Weadickville area since it already has that theme. Build more buildings similar to that style and have a little western main street that could be used for events all summer long.

On a somewhat related note, every time I see the Victoria Park plan I notice that there are hotels and apartments planned to be put on the stampede grounds at some point. My question is, will they get free admission to the grounds? How will the stampede police people from entering their own homes?

 

[Meikkhaell]

First thing I thought of when I saw the Vegas Sphere is "man, if that was in Calgary it would be trashed within a year."
The frequent hail storms, temperature swings, etc we get here does not lend itself well to massive outdoor LED displays. Just look at all the problems Telus Sky has had, and those are much smaller lighting fixtures.

I'd be happy with something similar to the BMO expansion as our arena. As others have said, Stampede-ifying the surrounding area would help lots too. I expect a better arena than the design we got last year (especially given the increased cost), but I wouldn't hold your breath for something truly spectacular. We can hope and dream that we'll get this state of the art Vegas-esque venue, but at the end of the day the money and climate just aren't there for it.

 

[CT (Chinese_T)]

First thing I thought of when I saw the Vegas Sphere is "man, if that was in Calgary it would be trashed within a year."
The frequent hail storms, temperature swings, etc we get here does not lend itself well to massive outdoor LED displays. Just look at all the problems Telus Sky has had, and those are much smaller lighting fixtures.

I'd be happy with something similar to the BMO expansion as our arena. As others have said, Stampede-ifying the surrounding area would help lots too. I expect a better arena than the design we got last year (especially given the increased cost), but I wouldn't hold your breath for something truly spectacular. We can hope and dream that we'll get this state of the art Vegas-esque venue, but at the end of the day the money and climate just aren't there for it.

I've always thought it would be fun to make some of the rides at stampede park permanent and operate them semi-year-round like Calaway park, probably safer that way too.