Green Line LRT | ?m | ?s | Calgary Transit

[darwink]

Honestly I think the best way to improve this section of Crowchild would be to expand the section on the hill near 16th to 3 lanes each way. This is the primary bottle neck that really slows things down. Not sure how they'd do that though, it's a pretty tight spot.

and would it really save that much time? Or does it act more like a metered entry, helping subsequent sections.

 

[FCC1982]

"Should" and "is" are very different things unfortunately (well, unfortunate, depending on your point of view). Still many, many, many interchanges left to be built in Calgary according to the long range plans. Just go to the "Anticipated Projects" section of the regional transportation model website to get an idea of this:

Forecasting toolbox

www.calgary.ca

As a taste, here is the map for the 2046-2076 horizon. Download it yourself if you want to see the details, because you really need to be able to zoom in to get a sense of it all. What isn't obvious on that map, is the amount of projects built in the earlier horizons.
View attachment 419634

Some of those are regional and as a result, the responsibility of the Province. But things like the grade separation of 14th Street SW, and the grade speration of Anderson Road (not the intersection between these two, but ever intersection along these two) would be entirely on the City.

These project forecasting maps are awesome!
Thanks for posting the link.

 

[Golfing guy]

Email update from project Manager

Dear Calgarians, As you transition out of summer, and return to regular routines at school, work and in the community, you will likely notice that Green Line construction has ramped up in the Beltline and Downtown. A clear signal that Green Line is moving forward and another great opportunity to share updates from the Green Line Board. We know how important this project is to Calgarians, and while a lot of our work is done behind the scenes, we want to ensure you get additional information about the project directly from us, beyond our public monthly and quarterly reports. In this update, we wanted to share more about the Board and the steps we’re taking to deliver Phase 1 of the Green Line LRT, from Shepard to Eau Claire. City Council, with the endorsement of the provincial and federal governments, put the Green Line Board in place in 2021. Working within Council direction, we have a mandate to deliver the project, within the committed funds, for Calgarians and on behalf of our funding partners. We take this responsibility seriously and are utilizing our collective expertise in megaprojects, planning, finance, and governance, coupled with our outstanding leadership team, to get this project right. Last summer, the province announced it had successfully concluded an extensive year-long review of several factors including costs, risks, procurement, and ridership and approved the updated business case and their $1.5B contribution. Their approval aligned all three orders of government, and with confidence from our own thorough review process, we made key decisions to begin making the Green Line LRT a reality. In what has been an exciting year, construction began in the Beltline and Downtown on our multi-year project to relocate and upgrade utilities for the future track and stations. We announced the purchase of our new fleet of light rail vehicles, moved forward with a phased approach to building Green Line and released the Request For Qualifications (RFQ) for Phase 1, all significant milestones along our critical path. It has been rewarding to see the interest and confidence from the market in response to these decisions. And last month, we were pleased to announce the RFQ short-list of two strong teams competing to build the Green Line for Calgarians. Moving forward, the Board will have important decisions to make. As the largest project in Calgary’s history with $4.9B in funding, Calgarians and our funding partners are relying on us to make decisions and recommendations to Council that balance expected benefits with the corresponding costs and risks. Through ongoing due diligence, we seek confirmation from various independent expert advisors that our assessment of technical and financial risk is sound and reflected in our overall estimates of cost and schedule for completing the project. We have confidence in the quality of this work and the processes we use to continually evaluate results as we move through procurement. We have seen throughout the COVID-19 pandemic that markets can change quickly. Just two years ago, a global pandemic and escalating inflation were not significant factors in infrastructure project pricing. To mitigate these risks, we developed a procurement process that requires open collaboration with our future construction partner to evaluate, negotiate and agree on design, risks, costs and schedule, in a transparent manner, with a goal to having an agreement in place in 2024. Like our approach to procurement, Calgarians can always count on the Board to make thoughtful, forward-looking decisions to reduce potential project risk. In the City of Calgary’s recent Spring Pulse Survey, 91% of you shared your support for Green Line. From creating jobs to connecting you to where you work, live and play, this is a project for all of Calgary. We believe in Green Line and its remarkable long-term city-shaping benefits and are committed to making the best possible decisions for the project. Thank you for your support and confidence in us as we work to deliver the Green Line LRT. We look forward to keeping you updated. Don Fairbairn Chair

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615 Macleod Trail SE | P.O Box 2100, Station M, Calgary, AB T2P 2M5 Unsubscribe | Update preferences

 

[Roaring Flames]

Green Line construction at 12th Ave SE and Olympic Way SE

 

[YourBoy007]

Will there be any vendors in these underground stations? Cafe's, restaurants, Convenience stores?

 

[Silence&Motion]

The Ontario Line - A Big Step Forward for Toronto's Relief Line Successor | UrbanToronto

On September 14th, Infrastructure Ontario delivered major news that two of the three major contracts associated with the Ontario Line now have preferred proponents, which brings us much closer to final contract closure and the beginning of major construction.

urbantoronto.ca

Really jealous at how quickly the Ontario Line is proceeding. It was announced out of nowhere in 2019 and they already have shovels in the ground. It's a totally different game when the provincial government takes the lead in transit construction. You couldn't possibly design a worse way to build transit than the city-led process that has been the norm in Canada, where a bunch of independent city councillors need to agree on a plan, then find a way to fund 1/3 of it, then convince two separate levels of government (often run by different parties) to fund the other two thirds. Every time there's an election at any level of government, the whole thing risks complete collapse. It's no wonder Canada has built almost no mass transit since the 1980s (Vancouver's Skytrain being the one bright spot).

 

[Golfing guy]

The Ontario Line - A Big Step Forward for Toronto's Relief Line Successor | UrbanToronto

On September 14th, Infrastructure Ontario delivered major news that two of the three major contracts associated with the Ontario Line now have preferred proponents, which brings us much closer to final contract closure and the beginning of major construction.

urbantoronto.ca

Really jealous at how quickly the Ontario Line is proceeding. It was announced out of nowhere in 2019 and they already have shovels in the ground. It's a totally different game when the provincial government takes the lead in transit construction. You couldn't possibly design a worse way to build transit than the city-led process that has been the norm in Canada, where a bunch of independent city councillors need to agree on a plan, then find a way to fund 1/3 of it, then convince two separate levels of government (often run by different parties) to fund the other two thirds. Every time there's an election at any level of government, the whole thing risks complete collapse. It's no wonder Canada has built almost no mass transit since the 1980s (Vancouver's Skytrain being the one bright spot).

Didn’t calgary build the West LRT , NE extension and NW extension in the blast 10-15 years? Edmonton has built the Valley line?

 

[Silence&Motion]

Didn’t calgary build the West LRT , NE extension and NW extension in the blast 10-15 years? Edmonton has built the Valley line?

Every Canadian city with a transit system built a handful of extensions throughout the 90s and 00s. That's the point. Most city-led initiatives are so hard to plan and fund that they end up producing just a few extensions here and there. The desire to build is there, but the process undermines it all the time. Transit construction requires centralized leadership with a large tax base.

 

[Golfing guy]

Every Canadian city with a transit system built a handful of extensions throughout the 90s and 00s. That's the point. Most city-led initiatives are so hard to plan and fund that they end up producing just a few extensions here and there. The desire to build is there, but the process undermines it all the time. Transit construction requires centralized leadership with a large tax base.

No… your point being that hardly any mass transit was built in cities in Canada (except Vancouver) since the 80 ‘s. Vancouver is a poor example in my mind. Because after the Expo line in the mid 80’s not much was built until the early 2000’s (millennial line). It’s the same time line as most cities having very little transit built in the 90’s. I don’t think it mattered that it was city or provincial run. Billion$$ investment takes time

 

[CalgaryTiger]

millennial line

This made me laugh, but please don't edit it, as a millennial myself I think we and the generations after us are much more into seeing transit and train development in Canada.

I grew up in the burbs and was very isolated until I could drive because transit was so awful.

 

[Silence&Motion]

No… your point being that hardly any mass transit was built in cities in Canada (except Vancouver) since the 80 ‘s. Vancouver is a poor example in my mind. Because after the Expo line in the mid 80’s not much was built until the early 2000’s (millennial line). It’s the same time line as most cities having very little transit built in the 90’s. I don’t think it mattered that it was city or provincial run. Billion$$ investment takes time

Yes. My point is that very little transit has been built since the 1980s. Vancouver is arguably an exception. The 1990s was particularly bad, which is understandable given the issues with debt. HOWEVER, the fact that so little transit has been built in the last 40 years is a clear sign that the system for designing and building mass transit in this country is completely broken. The 2020s will prove to be a massive change in fortunes mostly because the Ontario and Quebec governments have taken over from Toronto and Montreal. Alberta should follow suit.

Here's transit stations built by decade with and without Vancouver:

 

[Mountain Man]

I see a big spike in Montreal before the Olympics, same with Calgary and Vancouver. I think a major world event with the funding that comes with is a big factor.

 

[darwink]

with the funding that comes

The cities didn't recieve extra special funding as part of the olympics, but certainly the cities felt confidence which enabled the politics to support investment.

 

[Silence&Motion]

I see a big spike in Montreal before the Olympics, same with Calgary and Vancouver. I think a major world event with the funding that comes with is a big factor.

Exactly. Which is why this city-led process is so terrible. In order to keep everyone on the same page, you need some mega-event. Mass transit has been treated like some special prize that provincial and federal politicians roll out during elections, when it should be treated like basic infrastructure that just needs to be continually expanded in line with a growing population. In Ontario, the establishment of Metrolinx was a big step forward. It expanded the Ministry of Transportation's mandate beyond highways and drivers' licenses to include the planning and development of public transit. (Note that in the 1990s even GO Transit had been downloaded to the municipalities.) As a result, several LRT lines were built (Kitchener, Ottawa, two lines close to completion in Toronto).

However, for the first part of its existence, Metrolinx was still very passive, letting municipalities propose and design transit lines. They just stood by and let Rob Ford trash an LRT plan that took years to develop and had funding in place. Ottawa's LRT, which did get built but has run into significant problems, reveals how terrible it is to have decision making powers scattered across so many different organizations and agencies, including city councils, mayors' offices, municipal transit authorities, and private construction consortiums. In the end, decision-making power over transit planning needs to lie with the ultimate source of political (and financial) power, which is the provincial government. With the Ontario Line, as well as the significant improvements to the GO system, Metrolinx is finally taking the lead in transit development. Municipal governments basically just need to fall in line, which is maybe not so great from a democratic standpoint, but works so much better from a logistical standpoint.

 

[Reecemartin]

Yes. My point is that very little transit has been built since the 1980s. Vancouver is arguably an exception. The 1990s was particularly bad, which is understandable given the issues with debt. HOWEVER, the fact that so little transit has been built in the last 40 years is a clear sign that the system for designing and building mass transit in this country is completely broken. The 2020s will prove to be a massive change in fortunes mostly because the Ontario and Quebec governments have taken over from Toronto and Montreal. Alberta should follow suit.

Here's transit stations built by decade with and without Vancouver:

View attachment 427275

I made a video about something along these lines last year:

You should have included the 2020s because they will be nuts. Heres a rough summary - not counting interchanges because they aren't "new".

Vancouver is adding 5 on Broadway, 8 for Surrey Langley + Capstan Way infill station on the Canada Line. (Not to mention anything else which happens!)
Calgary is adding 14 for the Green Line.
Edmonton is adding 10 for VL SE, 16 VL West, 2 Metro Line NW, 2 Capital Line South
Hamilton is getting a 17 stop LRT
Hurontario LRT in Miss and Brampton is 17 (with 2 GO interchanges)
In Toronto Finch is 18, Eglinton is 22 new stops, Eglinton West is 7, Ontario Line is 10 new stations (Yonge North is also moving forwards but not u/c as all the others are - GO is also probably going to add at least 10 new stations with a decent all day service but I'll leave out)
In Ottawa, West Extension is 11 New Stations, East Extension is 5 New Stations, South Extension is 8 new Stations
In Montreal the REM is 23, Blue Line Extension 5

That means we are probably getting 201 new frequent train or tram stops and stations in the next 10 years - this doesn't include: Likely further extensions in Vancouver (North Shore? UBC?), Waterloo (Phase 2), Ottawa (Stage 3), Mississauga/Brampton (Downtown Brampton Extension), Toronto (Finch, Yonge, Eglinton East?), or any additional REM Stations OR the Quebec City Tram which will probably happen - thats a LOT in 10 years!