darwink
Senior Member
If it was just a tunnel, would be somewhat easy. But stations, stations are what cost big big money underground.
forced transfers to the train are planned once the greenline gets to 64th.
Green Line LRT | ?m | ?s | Calgary Transit
- Thread starter Surrealplaces
- Start date
forced transfers to the train are planned once the greenline gets to 64th.
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
No way they take an underpass away from cars, I am only half joking when I say this.
I think they're wild if they actually bore and don't cut and over this thing.
Do you think the reduction in north/south crossings helps the blue/red lines?
lemongrab
Active Member
Should only be 2 underground stations in downtown I think?
I'd rather they tunnel into McHugh Bluff and ditch the 9 Ave N station.
lemongrab
Active Member
Not sure I understand your question? Green Line cut/cover at least maintains the status quo...
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
I was talking about the blue/red line.
darwink
Senior Member
Yeah. If there is failed procurement due to the tunnel, I suspect we will end up with something like the teal or pink below, elevated. Green is max slope which does allow for being deep enough by red, and having full 4.5m clearance for teal.
And getting to the middle of Centre St underground is worth it, then going elevated over 16th imo.
Joborule
Active Member
"Should" and "is" are very different things unfortunately (well, unfortunate, depending on your point of view). Still many, many, many interchanges left to be built in Calgary according to the long range plans. Just go to the "Anticipated Projects" section of the regional transportation model website to get an idea of this:
Forecasting toolbox
www.calgary.ca
As a taste, here is the map for the 2046-2076 horizon. Download it yourself if you want to see the details, because you really need to be able to zoom in to get a sense of it all. What isn't obvious on that map, is the amount of projects built in the earlier horizons.
View attachment 419634
Some of those are regional and as a result, the responsibility of the Province. But things like the grade separation of 14th Street SW, and the grade speration of Anderson Road (not the intersection between these two, but ever intersection along these two) would be entirely on the City.
That's because it's by 2039.
I feel though that just because you see something on these maps, doesn't mean that it will get built. On the previous forecast form 2006, it has Sarcee TR SW connecting to Shaganappi TR NW through Edworthy Park. That's no longer in the plans.
accord1999
Active Member
I suspect that current planners only really care about reaching 16th Ave in any fashion and will let somebody else in the future deal with the consequences. As it is, just to have any hope of getting to 16th within budget requires them to use the Option E that was rated poorly and rejected back in 2016.
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Joborule
Active Member
It's going to be above grade beyond 16th - otherwise the line will never get built with how costly it would be to fully tunnel. So is it that big of a trade off if it's at grade before it?
accord1999
Active Member
At least for the 2017 version, it being underground up to 16th Ave meant that bus and vehicle traffic wouldn't be impacted until money was available to go to 64th. And once construction could start, it would just be a few years of pain until buses could offload riders.
But with at-grade from the start, we could be looking at decades of pain (given the complete lack of any progress in the NC or prioritization) until money is available, not just for drivers but for all of the bus users of Centre Street N.
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darwink
Senior Member
The crossing the one centre street lane is a price. And crossing 16th at grade isn’t wise imo.
lemongrab
Active Member
South of 16th sees about 23k cars a day; north sees 18k dropping to 16k by ~24 Ave. Also far more alternatives north of 16th, whereas everything bottlenecks to the bridges southward.
Centre St also serves 10 bus routes, which is way more than any other road entering downtown. I'm not clear if busses would be able to drive on the street car lanes?
Isn't it effectively going from a versatile 4 lane road with reversals and off-peak parking to a 2 lane road?
accord1999
Active Member
In the "Updated Segment 2 Alignment Concept Plan GC2020-0583", it does state that buses would be able to go on the LRT guideway. In ideal conditions, it would be beneficial to the limited stop buses that don't need to stop between 16th Ave and the Centre Street Bridge, but accidents and winter conditions may increase the risk of train stoppages due to a bus blocking the way.
I think it's going to be very tight and fragile:
outoftheice
Active Member
I don't know about decades of pain. The next phase of federal transit funding launches in 2026. It will provide $3 billion per year towards projects across Canada. A future phase of Green Line that would extend the line north 96th Ave should easily qualify for some of that funding, especially since the last large federal funding commitment was announced in 2015 and the funds will be fully paid out by 2027.
Green Line also has a 91% support rating in YYC and the provincial funding commitment will be fully paid out by 2028. Any provincial government looking to be re-elected that year would be wise to splash some cash towards Green Line, especially with billions of dollars in matching federal funding on the table as well.
Also important to note that by 2028 construction on Stage 1 of Green Line still won't be complete so a funding announcement then for a Stage 2 northbound expansion would allow construction to begin prior to Stage 1 opening and that means Centre St north of 16th Ave will have 2 lanes closed before Green Line service on Centre St south of 16th Ave begins. All that to say I think it's doubtful these doom scenarios of a 4 lane Centre St north of 16th trying to dump a bunch of traffic and busses into a 2 lane Centre St south of 16th is going to exist for more than a year or two.
lemongrab
Active Member
Seems like it could be a pretty significant trade-off for pedestrians, too. Currently 11 and 9 Ave are the only ones without painted crosswalks (you can still cross there, but unlikely cars will stop for you). Dropping to every second block with less ped prioritized signals could suck.