Green Line LRT | ?m | ?s | Calgary Transit

[UrbanWarrior]

Not sure if its been specified before. But they've now stated that the tunnel will be built cut and cover between 7th ave and Eau Claire, and from the 4th Street station to the elbow. Curious how much of a disruption that will be to downtown cutting most of the way across north-south wise. The rest of the tunnel will use TBMs.

That’s awesome to know. The entry of Centre Street South Station will be right at my building, so I’ll be able to get some pretty wicked birds-eye-view shots of that construction. I was looking forward to getting pics of the tunnel if it was gonna be cut and cover, but the minimal noise will be nice

I will say though, 4th Street Station is looking extra-eeemely under designed. Like… gurl, 2 doors??

 

[goodcitywhenfinished]

Holy shite those stations are huge. No wonder there is talk of cost overruns.

Its a bloody low floor tram system lol. If the city wants to cosplay having a metro system maybe they should just - hear me out on this one - build a heavy rail metro.

 

[CBBarnett]

Holy shite those stations are huge. No wonder there is talk of cost overruns.

Its a bloody low floor tram system lol. If the city wants to cosplay having a metro system maybe they should just - hear me out on this one - build a heavy rail metro.

I agree - from that package that’s released it’s clear the focus has been downtown. The station designs respond to inner/major city contexts.

As soon as we hit Inglewood the attitude is more “don’t worry about it”. Cheap, casual, and no efforts to integrate the lands. Perhaps that’s okay - it’s a hybrid system.

To be more critical, if a project can fund a 1,000 stall park and ride, surely it can at least do some land schemes that build TOD. For a project at such a risk of cost overruns, Weird a parking lot would be in scope for transit project when the lands that homes for transit users live on, is out of scope.

 

[artvandelay]

The downtown station entrance buildings look way overbuilt. No wonder costs are out of control on this thing. Can these just be stairs / escalators popping up to the sidewalk with an elevator somewhere?

 

[Albertasaurus]

The downtown station entrance buildings look way overbuilt. No wonder costs are out of control on this thing. Can these just be stairs / escalators popping up to the sidewalk with an elevator somewhere?

Exactly, it doesn't have to be fancy. From what I recall when I was in Ottawa a few years back their downtown station entrances looked like an old school subway entrance, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I have to wonder if the skyrocketing costs of certain pieces of public infrastructure are due to overbuilding of components that used to be relatively simple.

 

[darwink]

The downtown station entrance buildings look way overbuilt. No wonder costs are out of control on this thing. Can these just be stairs / escalators popping up to the sidewalk with an elevator somewhere?

7th Ave is the most minimal I think. Shallow, no mezzanine. The Beltline Stations since they're underground have to be deeper underground due to the Red Line Tunnel. That means the station box is already excavated, and you can choose either to backfill, or use the space for stuff. For various reasons, the anglo world preference is to stuff back of house elements into the station box, and if room allows, do a full length mezzanine. In okay implementations, you don't expand the excavation to support this, in bad ones, the tail wags the dog, and the volume increases to accommodate services and the mezzanine.

In Calgary, it is almost always cheaper to buy more land than to increase station box volume. But changing that to optimize at this point would involve additional land acquisition, which the way the city does it, could add years to the schedule (going straight to expropriation would speed this dramatically AND be better for landowners, but the perception is a 'negoatition' is better even if the perception is wrong).

 

[CBBarnett]

You're not inspired by their distinctive flowing forms based on a chinook cloud arch?

I fully acknowledge this is a silly thing to complain about - but it's just statues of horses and swoopy roofs in this town! All I am asking for is a classy, small box - perhaps with some glass - that plugs in seamlessly to the sidewalk, like even just once. Like an Apple store, but with trains.

What we want to build:

What everyone else is building.
Vancouver - classy small glass box integrated to the sidewalk.

Montreal - classy small glass box integrated to the sidewalk.

Toronto - - classy small glass box integrated to the sidewalk.

Ottawa - classy small glass box integrated to the sidewalk (although in danger of slipping into bizarre angular roof design. On thin ice, Ottawa).

Edmonton: - classy outdoor boxes integrated to the sidewalk.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

The designs are too clever by half. as has been stated. If we don't care for the 'design' element in these stations I cannot imagine the public reception. Some buildings should be pieces of art. Some should just be their function.

 

[lemongrab]

Well, at least maintenance and repairs should be a lot more expensive with these designs, which will be great for the local trades economy. So there's that.

 

[Zoom]

It is totally possible to be elevated in the beltline and then below grade for crossing under the CPR and downtown. That has been my preferred option for a long time though I kinda assumed things were locked with the proponent.

Perhaps they are truly dialoguing it to reduce cost with the proponent, which is a great thing tbh if the city hasn't structured the contract incredibly poorly.

Why couldn’t we do elevated over the CPR tracks? Downtown are all underpasses at the moment, but we do have roads at cross over top of the tracks already and other parts of the city.
I wouldn’t object to it being elevated, but I don’t like the idea of it being elevated and then dipping below the tracks and then back up to the surface again it’s clunky.

 

[darwink]

Why couldn’t we do elevated over the CPR tracks? Downtown are all underpasses at the moment, but we do have roads at cross over top of the tracks already and other parts of the city.
I wouldn’t object to it being elevated, but I don’t like the idea of it being elevated and then dipping below the tracks and then back up to the surface again it’s clunky.

It has to be very elevated due to safety standards (12 or 14 metre clearance over to of rail). Plus have assumed given the city has done everything possible to remain underground in the core that it remained a very strong political preference.

 

[whatchyyc]

The blue line guideway is elevated over the tracks and bow trail and it made Sunalta station ridiculously tall

 

[SlippinJimmy]

I agree a simple glass cube suffices as an entrance rather than these weird shoehorn looking things. It's hard to tell for sure with the 30% designs but from what we got what I would like to have seen is better integration with surrounding development such as station entrances built into surrounding buildings where possible so that people in those buildings can access the train. Centre St for example should've maybe been planned so that it would not need to be a standalone building. With how close 4th appears to be in the renderings too (not something you can really rely on) it's disappointing that it does not have a pedestrian tunnel directly into the event centre so that people don't have to go outside in bad weather which is primarily when that building will be in use. Again, understandable if it isn't as close as they make it look.

I personally like the stations with the large mezzanine as it feels like properly built transit. It just makes me think it's even more a shame it's just a low-floor toy train. If it had not been for that north phase, this could have turned into something great like the REM.

Edmonton: - classy outdoor boxes integrated to the sidewalk.
View attachment 570582

I hear what you're saying, but I can't tell the difference between this and a bus stop (or the difference between the Valley Line and a BRT with rails and metal wheels).

let's not let perfect be the enemy of the good.

While this thinking does have its merit, a disjointed system isn't what I would call good (and could end up costing more) and also I wouldn't call any of the current proposals perfect.

Sign me up! I've always been on team SEBRT + NLRT. One of the biggest arguments against this was how much land acquisition and design work was needed for the north and that it wouldn't be able to begin construction until the mid 2020s...which happened anyways. Of course there are also some political issues to deal with in terms of changing scope/timelines, but they've had to do plenty of tapdancing anyways.

OTOH BRT segments can open piecemeal as they are ready. Personally I'm just concerned that the SE is not going to have the ridership to justify the OPEX, let alone the addtional CAPEX.

Tinfoil hat tells me it's powerful lobbying (if not outright conflict of interest) behind the tunnel vision for Shepherd Crossing, but I'm sure that's crazy talk as shirley it's impossible to think an elected official would enrich themselves through a new LRT line in Calgary of all places!

Ridership may not be there right away but SELRT I really hope will incentivize a bit of a change in the way that quadrant is developed, particularly around the stations and a change in how the bus routes are handled. I have said this before, but a Centre St N street car seems like a waste of money compared to running BRT with better queue jumping and higher frequency similar to Translink rapid busses. Put some wires up and make a trolley route if you must. The train won't exceed the speed a bus would go up there anyway.

 

[whatchyyc]

I would like to have seen is better integration with surrounding development such as station entrances built into surrounding buildings where possible so that people in those buildings can access the train.

I'm actually pretty sure this was the preferred solution sought by Green Line, I can't find anything right this second but I remember hearing repeated mentions of trying to integrate station entrances. Would definitely come down to property owners and technical feasibility

 

[darwink]

it's disappointing that it does not have a pedestrian tunnel directly into the event centre so that people don't have to go outside in bad weather

If you did that too many people would be highly irrational and try to take the green line downtown instead of walking to the red line even when going south. That would then drive costs in a myriad of ways.