Mountain Man
Senior Member
Is there a plan for the revamp of the Eau Claire area?
Eau Claire Market Redevelopment | 135.02m | 35s | Harvard Developments
- Thread starter Surrealplaces
- Start date
MichaelS
Senior Member
Eau Claire Plaza | Eau Claire Public Realm Projects
engage.calgary.ca
Colinfill
Active Member
This is one of the reasons why I had to unfollow them. They were pretty good when they would post about new store or restaurant openings, but they seem to be venturing into journalism over the last few years. However, they severely lack the journalistic integrity and means to be a valid independent journalist in the city. Plus, all of their articles seem to be bought or paid for now too.
Mountain Man
Senior Member
So is the Barley Mill is going to be torn down?
Sounds like it.
Mountain Man
Senior Member
Man, will have to go there ASAP, love that pub!
haltcatchfire
Senior Member
I'm getting strong feelings that I'm going to greatly dislike this area when it's redone. New Eau Claire Market redevelopment adjacent or not. Feels like it's going to be void of any character. The area doesn't check off many boxes right now but I don't think the redevelopment is adding many things beyond better open space for events like Taste of Calgary, Pet-A-Palooza, BBQ on the Bow, etc.
The current wading pool and playground was well used. The jury is out on whether the new play area will be better but the new spray area won't replace the wading pool.
While I've been wanting a quality central urban plaza forever, this one misses the mark for me. All great central urban squares around the world are the pedestrian route. This plaza is beside the pedestrian route and not the pedestrian route. There's no reason for activation through the plaza. It's a siding for people to sit, but is way out of scale for the kind of vibrancy that will actually be there, and probably reducing people's desire to hang out. A parking lot to single person scale isn't a comfortable spot to linger. There also aren't any confining features of the surrounding area doing any placemaking.
If there weren't townhouses north of the market, there should have been a land swap so the Green line station was on the edge of the plaza. That would have done wonders for it.
The current wading pool and playground was well used. The jury is out on whether the new play area will be better but the new spray area won't replace the wading pool.
While I've been wanting a quality central urban plaza forever, this one misses the mark for me. All great central urban squares around the world are the pedestrian route. This plaza is beside the pedestrian route and not the pedestrian route. There's no reason for activation through the plaza. It's a siding for people to sit, but is way out of scale for the kind of vibrancy that will actually be there, and probably reducing people's desire to hang out. A parking lot to single person scale isn't a comfortable spot to linger. There also aren't any confining features of the surrounding area doing any placemaking.
If there weren't townhouses north of the market, there should have been a land swap so the Green line station was on the edge of the plaza. That would have done wonders for it.
UrbanWarrior
Senior Member
Construction is already getting underway.
To haltcatchfire's comment, the new plaza is going to have two playgrounds, a splash pad, and a sand beach, which will then continue to the new path, and down to a pebble beach and concrete pad at the level of the lagoon... so it's definitely going to be well used.
The most active parts of the new plaza are right next to the new pedestrian route, so it will draw people into the space, which is what good plazas also do. It also will be a major secondary pedestrian through-way from the CBD to the river path via 3 Street, as it already is. I'm not sure where you're seeing no placemaking in the redesign, because it's everywhere. It's going to have the first urban sand beach in the city (other than Sikome
), and seems to be quite distinct from other areas and plazas along the river pathway system (RiverWalk Plaza, Delta Garden, etc.)I'm glad it includes a large grassy area as well as a large paved area, as both will be useful for different types of events.
I'm not saying it's foregone conclusion that the plaza will be an amazing success, but it certainly has the potential to be.
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haltcatchfire
Senior Member
Construction is already getting underway.
To haltcatchfire's comment, the new plaza is going to have two playgrounds, a splash pad, and a sand beach, which will then continue to the new path, and down to a pebble beach and concrete pad at the level of the lagoon... so it's definitely going to be well used.
The most active parts of the new plaza are right next to the new pedestrian route, so it will draw people into the space, which is what good plazas also do. It also will be a major secondary pedestrian through-way from the CBD to the river path via 3 Street, as it already is. I'm not sure where you're seeing no placemaking in the redesign, because it's everywhere. It's going to have the first urban sand beach in the city (other than Sikome
I'm glad it includes a large grassy area as well as a large paved area, as both will be useful for different types of events.
I'm not saying it's foregone conclusion that the plaza will be an amazing success, but it certainly has the potential to be.
Where will the second playground be? I only see one play area, and even then it's not clear yet how detailed it will be. Play for all ages is vague. I suppose the playground and play structures on the island are already quite good so it's no big deal. A splash park is fine, but the one in Central Memorial lost my kid's attention way quicker than the Eau Claire wading pool and play structure did.
That's not a beach, that's a sandbox! Let's remember this area is geese heavy in the summer. Sand sandwiched between a deck and a bike path doesn't seem to me like it'll really land a dozen people sunbathing on beach towels. My kid won't be playing around in a city sandbox either. You can't even build sand castles in dry sand.
I have no issues with anything on the north end down to the lagoon. Yes, that will continue to be a well used area.
You say the most active parts of the plaza are next to the pedestrian route, but what actually is visibly active there? Joey's for now until that's closed. The micro amount of foot traffic into the mall entrance. The Y is closed. Barley Mill will be gone. Whatever takes over 1886 will then be at the other end. Taxis pulling up to the hotel. Anything new in the eventual market redevelopment won't be active right on the plaza, it'll be across a road to the south, and we're a decade minimum away from anything new to the east. We may even be another decade away from anything new to the south, but there are rumours swirling that some tenant leases in the market aren't being renewed.
The four ways to activate a central plaza are 1) Surround the edge with active uses 2) Create a central feature to draw people towards the middle ie.feature fountain 3) Provide four corners connections to pedestrian routes to create cross plaza traffic that is actually cut through 4) program the plaza with active uses ie. vendors
This plaza won't have any active uses immediately adjacent to the edge. There's no central feature. The majority of pedestrian traffic here is north-south and these pedestrian routes are beside the plaza not through it.
As far as placement, the N-S pedestrian route has dictated everything here it seems. It aligns with the existing path, and the existing Jaipur bridge, but I would have considered shifting both if it made the plaza better positioned. Barclay Parade isn't ped. only in front of the hotel so it's a strange interplay between those two areas already. The south of the plaza will be offset and adjacent but no real strong focal gateway tie in to the south.
Side note: I always prefer more formal European central plaza piazza type planning, with more casual/modern finish/design.
I appreciate your optimism but I feel more tempered on this one. All in all though, I won't complain having that plaza all to myself.
ByeByeBaby
Active Member
I think a lot of your concerns about the plaza are because you are viewing it as a classic "central plaza"; many of your concerns really come down to wanting a better city built around the edges of it. I don't think it any design could function as a central plaza given the buildings currently around it, although everything around it is transitional, even unfortunately the YMCA apparently. The only land use that seems durable is the rich-people apartments, but those are anti-urban. It's really more of a transition to park space than a traditional plaza to me.
The design for the north end has a lot of potential; it's also something that could appeal to all ages; a wading pool is great for young kids and nobody else. I like that the through connection is prominent; to me that's actually the most important function along with festival space.
A central green doesn't make a ton of sense to me as a core element of a plaza that's right next to Prince's Island, which has all the lawn you can handle; it's not really filling a need. Even adding a central fountain; the river is a few feet away, so what would that add?
It's kind of a minimal design (the southern 2/3 at least), but I think with all of the question marks around the mall and so on, that might not be a bad thing; the main attempt to engage with the surrounding uses was the playground to serve as a front porch to the Y and support their outdoor programming, and look where that got us.
The design for the north end has a lot of potential; it's also something that could appeal to all ages; a wading pool is great for young kids and nobody else. I like that the through connection is prominent; to me that's actually the most important function along with festival space.
A central green doesn't make a ton of sense to me as a core element of a plaza that's right next to Prince's Island, which has all the lawn you can handle; it's not really filling a need. Even adding a central fountain; the river is a few feet away, so what would that add?
It's kind of a minimal design (the southern 2/3 at least), but I think with all of the question marks around the mall and so on, that might not be a bad thing; the main attempt to engage with the surrounding uses was the playground to serve as a front porch to the Y and support their outdoor programming, and look where that got us.
haltcatchfire
Senior Member
Viewing it as not a central plaza is why I have concerns that a massive precast surface just set there, won't get as much usage outside of programming/events as it needs to, to warrant it being there. On off days it's going to feel dead, which reduces desire to go to the area. A cycle of a self fulfilling prophecy or reducing action at the "market" buildings.
Who's going to say, let's go grab a coffee and hang out on that barren flat spot that doesn't have anything special about it when it's surrounded by areas to go to that have a signifier?
CBBarnett
Senior Member
I see what you are getting at I think. It's a fair point, the busiest place 24/7/365 is the node between the pathways, Jaipur Bridge and riverfront, if plan was reversed and the plaza was that node, while the other activities were further away from the pathway you'd certainly create a different pattern of use.
This might not be what you are thinking, but I wonder if you swapped #3 and #1 would you end up with better activation? There is probably a flood barrier to contend with so it might not be so simple, but essentially maximize the barrier-free walking and cycling space adjacent to the existing pathway, while having the more programmed spaces tucked further back. I don't know what would be better.
Roaring Flames
Senior Member
I'm torn. While it's nice to keep something from the 1988 Olympics, it's also a structure that doesn't have a lot of character or do much.
The Familia
Senior Member
I say dump it. They are keeping the smokestack which has more historical value. Eau Clare was never a major Olympic hub like Olympic Plaza was. I’d be more keen to save pieces of Olympic Plaza whenever that gets renovated as opposed to this boring arch.