1st St Chinatown Tower Development | ?m | 28s | El Condor Lands | Perkins + Will

gsunnyg said:
Wow thats just pathetic, Ive lost all hope for Chinatown, I hope they get nothing fixed or built for the next 30 years and have to live with their miserable crumbling buildings. I was so excited for this project, had a Tokyo vibe to it but days like this Im reminded why were still just a city but with a big town mentality. Especially when they said the the opponents concern is that its "too big, too busy," like are u f%#kin kidding me? in the heart of downtown you're scared of more density?:mad:
Click to expand...

Agree with you that the community opposition was disappointing, but was it that determinative of the final outcome?

They didn’t lose at the SDAB, they just pulled the application.

Maybe this is just a case of an opportune moment to cancel the project (due to a weak high rise condo market) that saves some face and appeases the community?
 
I want to boycot Chinatown now, that was one of the most promising developments in the city and it was defeated by a bunch of whiny old NIMBYs. Also, FUCK SDAB!! that body has far too much power.
 
Mountain Man said:
I want to boycot Chinatown now, that was one of the most promising developments in the city and it was defeated by a bunch of whiny old NIMBYs. Also, FUCK SDAB!! that body has far too much power.
Click to expand...

It was not defeated by NIMBYs nor SDAB. The developer withdrew the application. Most likely it was defeated by a bad market for high-rise condos and downtown hotels.
 
If the developer had no confidence in the market, they wouldn't have gone this far along in the process, so why the permit was pulled is an unknown.

In all likelihood it was the scale and density of the project that was defeated, and they would have had to completely start from scratch with no promise that they would be successful, especially given the current market. The notion that density was even a part of the reason is quite aggravating as this is downtown and there is a 775' tower 2 blocks away.

And the reason I say SDAB has too much power is I have had projects defeated for reasons that weren't even in the appeal. SDAB should review projects only on the merits of the specific appeals, and the decision by CPC and Council should be as big of a factor (if not bigger given the extensive reviews already done) than the concerns of old NIMBYs. Traffic on 2nd Ave here is already gridlock, the extra cars that this brings wouldn't be noticeable, but the increase in pedestrian traffic certainly would be. There are no safety concerns at all from this development.
 
Ya, from every thing Ive read, it all points to NIMBYism for the withdrawal. Even if the developer got cold feet this late in the process there was no one holding them at gunpoint to get it started next year. They could've started construction once the economy picked up. The developer still owns the land so unless they sell it, they'll most likely have to come back and dumb down the project which is exactly what the NIMBYist in Chinatown want based on the video.

This problem isn't exclusive to Calgary, same thing is happening in Vancouver where NIMBYist refuse to allow redevelopment happen in Chinatown yet Richmond has overtaken Chinatown as the hotspot for the Asian diaspora. Such a shame, either u change with times or get left behind. A few NIMBYist are literally holding that area of the city hostage. Once all the seniors pass away, who would want to live in a such a deteriorating place 20 years from now? They should at least think about their future generations.
 
this belongs in the nimby hall of fame

“This parking lot would’ve been lost: 240 parking stalls would’ve been gone, as well as the on-street parking where the hotel is supposed to be,” Wong said. “Who is going to come to Chinatown if you can’t park in Chinatown?”

i can picture courageous residents chaining themselves to parking spots
 
What an embarrassment, Terry Wong is an idiot. Really no nicer way to put that. He's the Chinatown equivalent of Nero fiddling while Rome burned.
 
Again, NIMBYism did not defeat this project! The market did.

I agree that many of the NIMBY arguments are frustrating and contradictory. You're worried about the loss of parking, but you're also worried about the amount of cars?? Make up your mind! Also, if you think your business is so dependent on parking, just move it to the suburbs. Chinatown has many competitive advantages in terms of location, walkability, vibrancy, etc. Parking is not one of those advantages.

That said, I do agree with one of the overarching concerns of the community, which is that Chinatown is being eating away at the edges by very unsympathetic development. Everything from the Harry Hays building to the Bow tower has been designed to squeeze out Chinatown from the rest of downtown. Even the new Parkside condo development, which is technically within the Chinatown neighbourhood boundary and makes a few aesthetic gestures toward Chinatown (namely the dragon gate bordering Sien Lok Park), has put its parking garages facing the Chinese Cultural Centre, while orienting its retail toward Eau Claire.

Calgary's downtown is sterile and terrible. Chinatown is one of the most walkable, vibrant neighborhoods in the city. I think it's a reasonable concern that Chinatown could be devoured by the larger downtown area and lose everything that makes it walkable and vibrant. I don't think this development would have done that, personally, but I can see why the community saw it as the intrusion of downtown-style development into the heart of Chinatown. They've also seen how in Vancouver entire blocks of Chinatown that were home to dozens of small businesses have been replaced with single condos that have two or three retail spaces occupied by banks and fast food/coffee chains.

I know a lot of people are going to disagree with me on this, but I think Elements on First offers a great precedent for developing the empty lots in Chinatown: mid-rise (8-15 storeys), aesthetic nods to Chinatown, small lots. The only problem with Elements is a lack of retail units. Housing demand in Calgary will never be so great that we need to cover literally every block in downtown and the Beltline with 30+ storey towers. Mid-rise districts have their place too.
 
gsunnyg said:
This problem isn't exclusive to Calgary, same thing is happening in Vancouver where NIMBYist refuse to allow redevelopment happen in Chinatown yet Richmond has overtaken Chinatown as the hotspot for the Asian diaspora.
Click to expand...

There are half a million Chinese people living in Vancouver. Vancouver can support more that one "hotspot for the Asian diaspora". Vancouver's Chinatown =/= Richmond, just as Toronto's Chinatown =/= Markham.

gsunnyg said:
Such a shame, either u change with times or get left behind. A few NIMBYist are literally holding that area of the city hostage. Once all the seniors pass away, who would want to live in a such a deteriorating place 20 years from now? They should at least think about their future generations.
Click to expand...

Calgary's Chinatown population has been increasing steadily over the last two decades, including its senior population. It's not like people stop aging. There will always be more seniors.
 
Silence&Motion said:
There are half a million Chinese people living in Vancouver. Vancouver can support more that one "hotspot for the Asian diaspora". Vancouver's Chinatown =/= Richmond, just as Toronto's Chinatown =/= Markham.



Calgary's Chinatown population has been increasing steadily over the last two decades, including its senior population. It's not like people stop aging. There will always be more seniors.
Click to expand...
Watch that short video because its practically the same scenario in Calgary except our development was happening on an empty parking lot! We weren't tearing down history not to mention new condo prices are no where near that of Vancouvers. As presented in the video, Vancouver Chinatown is actually declining in business.

Note, I said 20 years from now, if that area continues to resent redevolpement with every NIMBYist excuse in the book, it'll definitely become a declining neighbourhood. The goal for chinatown in Calgary should be to attract newer younger Chinese that want both modern urban living and a cultural connection.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top