1st St Chinatown Tower Development | ?m | 28s | El Condor Lands | Perkins + Will

gsunnyg said:
Exactly, look at Vancouver's Chinatown. Now it's on a freefall with homeless people everywhere. A healthy neighbourhood needs to continue to attract investment to thrive. Too much or too little investment is bad. Although the population has increased, Calgary's Chinatown has been showing signs of a declining neighbourhood and with nearby areas like Eau Claire losing businesses and a YMCA, it's not getting any better. This development and the Greenline (connecting Chinese businesses along Centre Street) could really help bring more life into the area.
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Neighbourhood change is inevitable. In well functioning urban places, cities and neighbourhoods naturally go through cycles of growth, stagnation and decline. By preventing change - or only allowing a very prescriptive type of change that is inherently less resilient to future changes (e.g. single use office towers) - you only end up preventing the growth part. Stagnation and decline are your other options on a long enough timeline.

Local politics plays a role in Chinatown, but some of the broader forces that made non-commercial inner city reinvestment difficult for a half-century also should shoulder some of the blame. Prioritizing Centre Street as transportation corridor for mobility/throughput over placemaking and local needs hasn't helped. We even put up highway barriers along the street to protect pedestrians, always a great idea for creating attractive retail districts. Another example of how we prioritize commuter needs over local needs in the downtown core.
 
And really, you can't blame them. If you look at Chinatown recently... no to Green Line, no to cycletracks, no to new development. If you say no to anything that's going to change the dynamic why would you expect businesses to say yes to you?
 
At this point what is Chinatown safeguarding? It hasn’t seem meaningful redevelopment and they put up sound barriers for traffic along centre and tore down an existing building for parking on centre. Other than two minor seniors apartment infill projects what has happened there? When I was in CRE there is significant interest for business expansion that would be an extension of Chinatown in east village.
This is exactly the kind of development that would bolster Chinatown as an important cultural district. The site design makes it distinct and genuinely like an Asian city in the public realm. This is exactly what we need to see for redevelopment projects here especially as someone who has lived in an Asian city I think this blends it really well in the Calgary context. Demand for this type of development is there IMO, get out of the way and provide feedback that makes it more interesting and distinct
 
I support this development, but I really feel the need to push back against the exaggerated claims that Chinatown is some decaying, depressed neighbourhood, which is basically how all Chinatowns have been described since the 19th century.

gsunnyg said:
Exactly, look at Vancouver's Chinatown. Now it's on a freefall with homeless people everywhere. A healthy neighbourhood needs to continue to attract investment to thrive.
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Vancouver's Chinatown has had a significant amount of development over the last 20 years. Maybe not a lot relative to some other neighbourhoods in Vancouver, but any neighbourhood in Calgary would be lucky to have the amount of investment that's happened in Vancouver's Chinatown.

goodcitywhenfinished said:
Yep Chinese businesses continue to shift north on Centre Street. More and more opening north of 16th and in the Harvest Hills area as well. There is little interest for anyone in that community to open up shop downtown.

Similar to how most Chinese businesses in Vancouver have shifted to south Van.
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There's almost 100,000 Chinese people living in Calgary. It doesn't make sense to think of inner-city and suburban Chinese neighbourhoods as being locked in a zero-sum game. They provide different experiences and attract different demographics. Unfortunately, I do think this "zero-sum" thinking exists among some Chinatown business owners who think they need ample free parking available in order to compete with suburban businesses.

Calgcouver said:
At this point what is Chinatown safeguarding? It hasn’t seem meaningful redevelopment and they put up sound barriers for traffic along centre and tore down an existing building for parking on centre. Other than two minor seniors apartment infill projects what has happened there? When I was in CRE there is significant interest for business expansion that would be an extension of Chinatown in east village.
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The population of Calgary Chinatown almost doubled in the last 15 years, so there has been significant development.

There used to be a legitimate worry that Chinatown would be eaten away by the kind of bland, corporate development that dominates the rest of downtown. Given the state of downtown right now, I don't think people should be as worried about that as they used to be. If smaller, rental units were more plentiful in Chinatown, I think the neighbourhood could attract a lot of students (including international students) who would want to be within walking distance of cheap restaurants and cafes, but also a quick LRT ride to campus. If I was a student, I'd much rather rent an apartment in Chinatown than one in Brentwood or Varsity.
 
Nimbus said:
I wonder how much of the Chinatown doubling population is from Waterfront? I'd guess quite a bit.
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Almost entirely, since the only others built were Element on First and Oi Kwan Place II. (about 200 units combined)
 
Calgcouver said:
At this point what is Chinatown safeguarding? It hasn’t seem meaningful redevelopment and they put up sound barriers for traffic along centre and tore down an existing building for parking on centre. Other than two minor seniors apartment infill projects what has happened there? When I was in CRE there is significant interest for business expansion that would be an extension of Chinatown in east village.
This is exactly the kind of development that would bolster Chinatown as an important cultural district. The site design makes it distinct and genuinely like an Asian city in the public realm. This is exactly what we need to see for redevelopment projects here especially as someone who has lived in an Asian city I think this blends it really well in the Calgary context. Demand for this type of development is there IMO, get out of the way and provide feedback that makes it more interesting and distinct
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Having also spent a lot of time in Asia, I was actually pretty impressed with the public realm of this project. The shop lined alleys and design reminds me of a couple cities in Asia, including China. I'd love to see more developments like this, Calgary really lacks the kind of narrow pedestrian alleys that you find in Asia and Europe.
 
Nimbus said:
And then my follow up question would be how many residents in Waterfront even realize they live in Chinatown?
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That's the issue. The Waterfront development was designed to be an Eau Clair development, likely because the developers thought it would be better from a marketing standpoint. But that caused a lot of raw nerves in the community. It's the latest in a long history of unsympathetic development that turns its back to the neighbourhood (Bow Tower, Sun Life Plaza, Harry Hays, etc.)

That said, I do think the Waterfront condos will benefit Chinatown in the long run, and so will this development which has the added benefit of reflecting neighbourhood identity in its design.
 
Nimbus said:
And then my follow up question would be how many residents in Waterfront even realize they live in Chinatown?
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I just looked at the realtor listings for the Waterfront complex; there were three saying the unit was in Eau Claire, and only one saying it was in Chinatown; there were another three listings mentioning proximity to Eau Claire, and two to Chinatown. (and one talking about Princess's Island; come on, realtors. You have one job; knowing something about the city is part of it.)
 
ByeByeBaby said:
I just looked at the realtor listings for the Waterfront complex; there were three saying the unit was in Eau Claire, and only one saying it was in Chinatown; there were another three listings mentioning proximity to Eau Claire, and two to Chinatown. (and one talking about Princess's Island; come on, realtors. You have one job; knowing something about the city is part of it.)
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Either that or they are targeting certain demographics. If you're clients are likely to be people in the burbs downsizing, you might advertise as Eau Claire, and if you're targeting younger maybe more Asian demographic, you might advertise as Chinatown.
 
Ubran Outdoorsman said:
I'm assuming the project will have been modified since it's last attempt. Any guesses on what's going to be different?
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The original proposal called for an office building, a condo tower and a hotel. For sure, the office building is not going to get built and if I recall, most of the community objections (other than on height) were about the hotel.
 
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