Green Line LRT | ?m | ?s | Calgary Transit

Are they going to expropriate the land? I really have to wonder about some of the decisions being made about the northern alignment. I guess this is what you get when the new provincial government reneges on promised funds and threatens to eliminate the project altogether.
 
Nimbus said:
I saw the alignment for the route yesterday that is not that, in fact it goes through the houses just to the west of the Shaw house. Attaching a crappy MSPaint to show what I saw.
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I saw that image circulating around Twitter. I wasn't sure whether it was the actual alignment of the new plan, or the alignment for the tunnel in the older plan. Just looking at the elevations, that alignment doesn't make sense to me at all for a surface route. If you turned off Centre street at that point, you'd run straight into the side of a cliff. And then, of course, you have the whole issue of expropriation.

If that is the actual alignment being proposed, then it's more evidence that this plan is designed to produce a compromise where Phase 1 of the Greenline ends at Eau Claire, and the northern suburbs get a "temporary" BRT to keep them happy. And Crescent Heights accepts BRT lanes along Centre Street in exchange for the promise that Phase 2 of the Greenline will be underground and have a station at 9 Ave.
 
Nimbus said:
I saw the alignment for the route yesterday that is not that, in fact it goes through the houses just to the west of the Shaw house. Attaching a crappy MSPaint to show what I saw.View attachment 228338
Click to expand...

Actually, looking at these images more closely, I think the alignment you are referring to is the original tunnel alignment. The new bridge alignment does seem to go further south on Centre and turn off around 2 Ave NE.

Disraeli said:
This is being reported as the new proposed downtown alignment

View attachment 227950
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1223314970630189056
Pretty neat lil history tidbit.

I honestly think I've come around to the idea to just use the Centre Street Bridge, if it's going to run surface on Centre ST South of 16 AVE. Save the new bridge $$$ and get the line going North to 96 AVE and get the airport bird stoned too. Bus would be fine. Maybe add a station or two in the South. North and South of Stoney communities will both have to wait for Phase 2.

From the North, pretty much as planned, with underpass at McKnight. I'd add 64 AVE too.
16 AVE Station - underground, probably North of 16 AVE, but with access from the South as well. having it underground here still will allow car movements 16 AVE to adjust better to the reduced lanes further North and South.
9 AVE Station - surface. Great asset for Crescent Heights beyond it's residences. Tigerstadt Block is busy every night of the week, as are many other locations nearby. Crescent Heights High School. There's Uptown Edmonton Trail a few blocks East, and Sunnyside ain't that bad of a jaunt.
Centre Street Bridge - 1 lane car traffic each direction, maybe a bike lane, and lrt in middle, or a side.
Chinatown Station - surface between 2 & 3 AVEs, or underground before 4 AVE with access from both sides, portal from 2 to 3 AVE. Sucks to be you Eau Claire.
Stephen Avenue Station - South of 8 AVE, entrances from Stephen Ave and right out front the Calgary Tower.
**Would also make Centre ST pedestrian only South of 6 AVE to the Tower to facilitate line transfers, especially with a buried Red Line. Also detours vehicle traffic that use 9 AVE to take Centre Street Bridge, onto new routes, as an aid to the reduced lanes on the bridge ;)
Turn East on 11 AVE, and as per "new plan", the rest.

If they are going to use Centre ST surface to get North within budget now, they might as well truly transform Centre Street. If the arguments against that are to please car drivers and leave the bridge as-is, then they need to tunnel to 16 AVE and build the new bridge over the park as per the last plan.
 
googspecial said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1223314970630189056
Pretty neat lil history tidbit.

I honestly think I've come around to the idea to just use the Centre Street Bridge. If it's going to run surface on Centre ST South of 16 AVE. Save the new bridge $$$ and get the line going North to 96 AVE and get the airport bird stoned too. Maybe add a station or two in the South. North and South of Stoney communities will both have to wait for Phase 2.

From the North, pretty much as planned, with underpass at McKnight. I'd add 64 AVE too.
16 AVE Station - underground, probably North of 16 AVE, but with access from the South as well. having it underground here still will allow car movements 16 AVE to adjust better to the reduced lanes further North and South.
9 AVE Station - surface. Great asset for Crescent Heights beyond it's residences. Tigerstadt Block is busy every night of the week, as are many other locations nearby. Crescent Heights High School. There's Uptown Edmonton Trail a few blocks East, and Sunnyside ain't that bad of a jaunt.
Centre Street Bridge - 1 lane car traffic each direction, maybe a bike lane, and lrt in middle, or a side.
Chinatown Station - surface between 2 & 3 AVEs, or underground beneath 4 AVE with access from both sides, portal from 2 to 3 AVE. Sucks to be you Eau Claire.
Stephen Avenue Station - South of 8 AVE, entrances from Stephen Ave and right out front the Calgary Tower.
**Would also make Centre ST pedestrian only South of 6 AVE to the Tower to facilitate line transfers, especially with a buried Red Line. Also detours vehicle traffic that use 9 AVE to take Centre Street Bridge, onto new routes, as an aid to the reduced lanes on the bridge ;)
Turn East on 11 AVE, and as per "new plan", the rest.

If they are going to use Centre ST surface to get North within budget now, they might as well truly transform Centre Street. If the arguments against that are to please car drivers and leave the bridge as-is, then they need to tunnel to 16 AVE and build the new bridge over the park as per the last plan.
Click to expand...
I recall they deemed the existing bridge not sound enough to hold a modern train's weight but don't recall any details behind that statement. Would retrofitting Centre St. for weight be much more expensive than a whole new crossing, expropriations?
 
O-tac said:
Are they going to expropriate the land? I really have to wonder about some of the decisions being made about the northern alignment. I guess this is what you get when the new provincial government reneges on promised funds and threatens to eliminate the project altogether.
Click to expand...
The Province's funding changes may be the straw that's currently breaking the Green Line's back but all of its trouble really stem from it going more than $3B over budget for the full-line. Since the decision to use Shepard for the yard appears to be unassailable, then any cost savings have to come from the NC.
 
CBBarnett said:
I recall they deemed the existing bridge not sound enough to hold a modern train's weight but don't recall any details behind that statement. Would retrofitting Centre St. for weight be much more expensive than a whole new crossing, expropriations?
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I don't know what those numbers look like, but other reductions in costs to consider as well. No readjusting the bluff side with either a portal or grading. Memorial and Bow River Pathways are left alone mostly (could improve the lower deck while they're at it). No re-landscaping Prince's Island Park. Overall reduction in track length, albeit small.
 
Back in 2016 when Council was first deciding on how to get into downtown, the options and costs were presented. Using the Centre Street Bridge (Option A) wasn't much cheaper than using a new bridge (Option E) and that option even included an underground station at 16th Avenue.

SgKaxo0.png


A high-level graphical view of the various options can be seen here:

 
That assumes the line still goes West through Eau Claire, which I understand is likely nonnegotiable at this point in the project. Just an opportunity I saw with using the existing bridge, and possibly getting more of the line out of it. And if they'll be disrupting traffic patterns up top the hill, might as well continue that down the bridge.
 
Silence&Motion said:
Actually, looking at these images more closely, I think the alignment you are referring to is the original tunnel alignment. The new bridge alignment does seem to go further south on Centre and turn off around 2 Ave NE.
Click to expand...

You are correct, the new bridge alignment is being planned so that the Green Line enters Centre St just north of the traffic lights at 2nd Ave NE. No homes along the bluff will be directly impacted or expropriated.
 
Social Justice said:
I used to live the Crescent Heights, and unfortunately, I think the alignment of Centre street will result in a big political battle. I'd be happy if Centre is transit-only south of 16th or auto access is restricted...the city could add a station at 9th ave. However, I think the local businesses along Centre and the roads department would go bananas over the proposal. Also, what would be done with the existing centre street bridge? 4 lanes are going to be severely under utilized.

One last thing...I think the 16th ave crossing needs to be grade separated.
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I agree with this except that I still think that it needs to be UG all the way to 16. After seeing this botched abortion of a proposal, I don't mind the thought of a bridge punching into the bluffs or an at-grade station at Eau Claire. I feel like we are pulling an Edmonton, except worse. Both of our existing lines (which have existed for decades) that cross 16 Avenue have crossed under it since their inception. The idea that we will be building an at grade station at the TransCanada Highway in the 2020s makes me actually angry. What the hell is happening at the city right now? If it's money, then don't build the f*cking portion north of the river until you can do it right, don't devastate the accessibility of a significant part of the city for decades to come just to satisfy your vanity. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
 
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UrbanWarrior said:
Both of our existing lines (which have existed for decades) that cross 16 Avenue have crossed under it since their inception. The idea that we will be building an at grade station at the TransCanada Highway in the 2020s makes me actually angry.
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It doesn't look like the line will actually reach 16 AVE at this point. I assume they'd go under 16 "when" they eventually extend the line north. I'd actually prefer a surface-level LRT over nothing at all. There will be incredible political blow back at removing driving lanes, but if they can overcome that, I think the end product would be better for the neighbourhood. Drivers would find alternative ways of getting downtown and things would eventually stabilize. King Street in Waterloo is probably a good idea of what Centre Street North could look like.
 
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