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Water main break discussion

Surrealplaces said:
I don't know how long this shortage will go on for, but one possibility is to raise the cost of water to the point people think twice about wasting it. I was at work yesterday and was surprised at some of the people not being concerned about it at all. For example a coworker said he couldn't care less about the cutbacks, he was going to do his dishes and have a shower because according to him "there is nothing they could do about it" Later in the afternoon the cleaning staff was in mopping the floors, even though there only a half dozen people in and the floors were already clean. Car washes recycle most of their water (~80%) but is it necessary to wash the car now? People are still doing it.

Currently we are paying $ 1.464300 / m3, Imagine if the city bumped that to $20 /m3, people might use it only if they really need it.
Click to expand...
It would be neat to have access to better individual data about uses, give people a better sense of where the value is and where they should save. Like a smart meter, but for all faucets and appliances in your house so individuals can actually see how much water is used in common task.

I have no clue how much water or electricity anything uses on average so I did a casual google search:
  • washing machine = ~50 - 100L / load, depending on the style
  • dishwater = 10 - 20L / load
  • Toilet = ~6L / flush
  • shower = 15 - 20L / minute (!)
Cutting back from a 10 minute shower to a 5 minute shower saves 75 - 100L of water, the same as 5-10 dishwasher loads or 12 - 18 toilet flushes. I think telling people that may make it easier to decide what to conserve and makes sense to them. A slightly shorter shower may save a person ~25% alone of their typical daily water consumption.
 
Surrealplaces said:
I don't know how long this shortage will go on for, but one possibility is to raise the cost of water to the point people think twice about wasting it. I was at work yesterday and was surprised at some of the people not being concerned about it at all. For example a coworker said he couldn't care less about the cutbacks, he was going to do his dishes and have a shower because according to him "there is nothing they could do about it" Later in the afternoon the cleaning staff was in mopping the floors, even though there only a half dozen people in and the floors were already clean. Car washes recycle most of their water (~80%) but is it necessary to wash the car now? People are still doing it.

Currently we are paying $ 1.464300 / m3, Imagine if the city bumped that to $20 /m3, people might use it only if they really need it.
Click to expand...
This is possible if they have smart water meters, otherwise it's impossible to tell when the usage occurred between reads. Although in general, I think our water pricing should move to less fixed cost and higher per m3 cost.
 
trtcttc said:
This is possible if they have smart water meters, otherwise it's impossible to tell when the usage occurred between reads. Although in general, I think our water pricing should move to less fixed cost and higher per m3 cost.
Click to expand...
As far as I know they do, as I heard yesterday on the radio they were monitoring people's usage and were going to reach out directly to the top users.
 
CBBarnett said:
It would be neat to have access to better individual data about uses, give people a better sense of where the value is and where they should save. Like a smart meter, but for all faucets and appliances in your house so individuals can actually see how much water is used in common task.

I have no clue how much water or electricity anything uses on average so I did a casual google search:
  • washing machine = ~50 - 100L / load, depending on the style
  • dishwater = 10 - 20L / load
  • Toilet = ~6L / flush
  • shower = 15 - 20L / minute (!)
Cutting back from a 10 minute shower to a 5 minute shower saves 75 - 100L of water, the same as 5-10 dishwasher loads or 12 - 18 toilet flushes. I think telling people that may make it easier to decide what to conserve and makes sense to them. A slightly shorter shower may save a person ~25% alone of their typical daily water consumption.
Click to expand...
I never realized a shower used that much water. Good to know. I recall the older toilets were around 12-13 liters, hopefully those aren't too common these days. Aside from the current water crisis, 13L is a lot just for a flush.
 
DougB said:
Empty threat. Very few smart water meters exist anywhere in the world. I've never seen one in Calgary
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I don't know how smart the readers are, but as Darwink mentioned they are all remotely readable. Everyone was forced to switch a few years back.
 
O-tac said:
I hope there are contingency plans if we run out of water as projected.
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tbh I am not sure the city has strong enough policy tools … I’d expect an emergency council meeting soon to authorize some crazy fines and prison time. Council has broad powers:
1717890399052.png


I doubt a bypass like an above ground, on road pipeline is practical. Really comes back to original design specs — whether tying it into the network would be as difficult as a repair.

So we’re left with fines and prison. Heaven and earth will be moved to stop the oldest parts of the network from depressurizing. If what it takes is daily utility readings and people going to prison, that is what is needed.

Depressurization could mean months to years without service for some properties. i don’t know how much of the network is the oldest pipes anymore, but it isn’t zero. The oldest pipes only hold their shape due to water pressure — if the pressure gets too low they will collapse.
 
Surrealplaces said:
I don't know how smart the readers are, but as Darwink mentioned they are all remotely readable. Everyone was forced to switch a few years back.
Click to expand...
My Dad is a hardline cheap conservative and I know for a fact he didn't get a water meter installed on his home, and still doesn't have one to this day.
He straight up told me he ain't getting one installed unless the city comes around and forces him to. I'm Curious how many other people in this city did the same.
 
Duck Lightning said:
My Dad is a hardline cheap conservative and I know for a fact he didn't get a water meter installed on his home, and still doesn't have one to this day.
He straight up told me he ain't getting one installed unless the city comes around and forces him to. I'm Curious how many other people in this city did the same.
Click to expand...
He might not have a meter but he’s not on the previous low cost flat rate anymore, and would likely save money by going to a meter. The city pushed for me to get a meter, and I resisted, but found if I didn’t change, they were going to charge me a flat rate that was about double my old flat rate. It ended up to be cheaper to get the water meter.
 
Surrealplaces said:
I don't know how smart the readers are, but as Darwink mentioned they are all remotely readable. Everyone was forced to switch a few years back.
Click to expand...
Duck Lightning said:
My Dad is a hardline cheap conservative and I know for a fact he didn't get a water meter installed on his home, and still doesn't have one to this day.
He straight up told me he ain't getting one installed unless the city comes around and forces him to. I'm Curious how many other people in this city did the same.
Click to expand...
Under the new water bylaw everyone was supposed to have been switched to meters by 2020.
Last I heard, there were only a few hundred customers left who didn’t have a meter, out of over half a million customers and that was a couple of years ago.
For the people who don’t have a meter, the city charges are rate based on the size of their property. 90% of the time people save money by using a meter.
I have no idea what the city charges people without meters, these days but they were planning on aggressive increases (and rightly so) until they could get everyone switched over.
 
Duck Lightning said:
My Dad is a hardline cheap conservative and I know for a fact he didn't get a water meter installed on his home, and still doesn't have one to this day.
He straight up told me he ain't getting one installed unless the city comes around and forces him to. I'm Curious how many other people in this city did the same.
Click to expand...
The idea of him trying to screw over the government when he's screwing over himself is sad.
 
Sounds like another week of water restrictions at least. Crazy to hear how many people refuse to adjust levels and are mad at Council "overreach". I talked to a few people on the weekend who said they were going to use more water to show there is no issue. People are getting silly with anti-government stuff these days.
 
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