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Urban Development and Proposals Discussion

Very true in terms of design and materials. These better be high quality and preferably use some type of brick or stone. I only meant I’m ok with the scale and size of buildings but they cannot cheap out on design and materials.
 
6 stories for the two lots next to the library is decent. They should go up quick and provide good filler for that area of EV. It’s about damn time something happen in EV, it’s becoming a major let down.
Demand is probably not doing well. From their release, Arris sold 177 and still have 200! units available. A casual look on listing sites show 39 active listings in the EV. For comparison, Kensington has about 12 active listings and 10 for Bridgeland in that block close to the LRT. There's the often talked about issues in the area but also not a great building mix from CMLC. The retail main street is lacking, and all the buildings are the same type, small condos catering to young people. UD has a much better mix of student housing, retirement estates, townhomes for small families, etc.
 
Article about the development for EV. Nothing that hasn't already been mentioned, but I thought I'd post it here anyways.

 
I'd be perfectly happy if the rest of EV fills out at 6-8 storeys.
Agreed, the overall design quality and especially street level interface are most important. As long as all those vacant lots start to fill up with decent projects, I'm not bothered about how tall they are.
 
The retail main street is lacking, and all the buildings are the same type, small condos catering to young people. UD has a much better mix of student housing, retirement estates, townhomes for small families, etc.

While I agree with you on the mix being too narrow compared to UD...if the reality of the area will not be changing for the foreseeable future (and I'm not really seeing any impetus or plan to), the only people who will continue to realistically consider living there will to be young people (and even so, a mix that leans towards men). You're not going to see much demand from families, or seniors, or rich empty nesters (and you can only hoodwink so many out-of-town investors). So it makes sense that if developers offer anything at all, it will continue to be a mix that leans on rentals/studios/1 bedrooms.
 
While I agree with you on the mix being too narrow compared to UD...if the reality of the area will not be changing for the foreseeable future (and I'm not really seeing any impetus or plan to), the only people who will continue to realistically consider living there will to be young people (and even so, a mix that leans towards men). You're not going to see much demand from families, or seniors, or rich empty nesters (and you can only hoodwink so many out-of-town investors). So it makes sense that if developers offer anything at all, it will continue to be a mix that leans on rentals/studios/1 bedrooms.
Agreed on the issues in the area being the primary concern but if they were building condos for young people, they should know how big of a market that is, and EV is just way too big relying on that base alone. Maybe something will come with the new recreation strategy but wouldn't this be a good location for a rec centre? Replace the Inglewood pool with a bigger facility that is transit accessible and I think with Chinatown and seniors in the area, you could get good all day usage. Obviously the drug related issues will still be there but getting more people in the area at all times of the day is what will make the area safer.
 
I personally feel the issue with EV is developers are trying to sell it as a high-end luxury product at high prices for sale or rent. It is not that. Maybe once there are more buildings to surface parking lots it could get there. If they lower the prices to market rent or utilize the subsidies for 'affordable rent' I think they could start filling up the space. As long as they hold onto the luxury market, I think it will stay stagnate. There are many more desirable neighborhoods attracting the luxury market.
 
but wouldn't this be a good location for a rec centre?
I will be very mad if the city spends hundreds of millions on a new pool in the EV after refusing to spend a few million on keeping a perfectly good pool at Eau Claire. The Inglewood Pool had its own issues, mostly it is too small to be a home pool for a swim club, but once the greenling is done, it will also be a great spot for a replacement pool
 
I will be very mad if the city spends hundreds of millions on a new pool in the EV after refusing to spend a few million on keeping a perfectly good pool at Eau Claire. The Inglewood Pool had its own issues, mostly it is too small to be a home pool for a swim club, but once the greenling is done, it will also be a great spot for a replacement pool
From some councilors I head on the issue, the reason they didn't want to keep Inglewood open was because they want to fund this new GamePlan that's supposed to come out in the next couple of months. It's supposed to be a new rec centre investment strategy

 
From some councilors I head on the issue, the reason they didn't want to keep Inglewood open was because they want to fund this new GamePlan that's supposed to come out in the next couple of months. It's supposed to be a new rec centre investment strategy

I am curious what this plan will actually propose and how that plan will manifest into actual facilities. Much of the issues with distribution and cost of recreation facilities isn't really a byproduct of public demands for stuff, but more interpretation of those demands combined with deliberate funding, operating and facility design assumptions IMO.

The bloated, mega-rec centres of the past 25 years were a byproduct of these factors. A generous take - they are huge capacity, attractive and modern, some of the best facilities in the country for mixed recreation opportunities. Many people asked for them and they got what they asked for. Less generously - and more accurately to me - we only could afford to build 4 of them because they are huge. It's not an inherent good thing we have the "1st and 2nd largest recreation YMCAs in the world!" as it was celebrated repeatedly.

The third-party operating model dictates what services can be offered, while design assumptions result in a facility so large it can't fit anywhere but a greenfield plot of land with low land costs. Despite every plan and policy talking about equitable access and public recreation being a critical service - we created $500M of recreation facilities scattered in inaccessible areas, at high costs to average users to access. We then tried to address this criticism with subsidized user passes - nice gesture, but never enough to overcome nearly impossible transportation barriers to access any of the new facilities. If you don't have a car, these recreation centres are not built for you.

Meanwhile, commitment to this facility design and operating model undercut investment in established facilities during the same era. Not only was all capital tied up on the major new facilities, smaller facilities with fewer amenities start looking deficient in comparison. Recreation starts seeing huge attendance growth in the new facilities and slower declines in older ones - not surprising, as anyone who didn't mind the drive to a fancier facility could do that, or if you a youth sport organization would go to the new large facilities instead of the old ones where the capacity exists.

Old facilities can't expand because the whole model favours new development, not retrofits, and land costs are too high to have some of the space-consuming amenities now considered standard. The result is a chain of decisions that close all the inner city pools in an awkward, staggered fashion to awkwardly glom them onto MNP Lindsay Park as the inner city's only facility that conforms to the mega-facility model.

TL/DR:
It really matters what this recreation plan optimizes for - not just about what sports and amenities are on offer as a "standard", but also what the plan says about "acceptable" levels of proximity, cost, amenity design, distribution and operating model. Our current model creates attractive, giant facilities but makes many of these other factors worse - worse access, worse affordability, worse distribution.
 
Are you including the Genesis Centre in this, which is like a < 10 minute walk from Saddletowne station?
Genesis is probably the best of the last era - it's actually pretty well designed and it's location by suburban standards is good.

Saddletowne's overall design with that wild one-way arterial style strip mall loop is the weak link here, combined with car-oriented design in all elements of the area, in nearly all developments. It's the other ones from that era that are more obviously missteps - particularly Rocky Ridge, Seton, Quarry Park, Great Plains etc.

But my critique is only partially related to the facilities, it's more that the facilities are the sub-optimal outcomes that revealed that the system and plans that produced them wasn't actually very good at addressing some of the things that it was trying to (increasing access, affordability, being a community hub for all etc.) That same system left much of the rest of the system to atrophy, particularly the inner city pools and gyms that cannot compete for funding in a model that favours this other scale of facility as an outcome.
 

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