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Urban Development and Proposals Discussion

It has been mentioned on the forum before, that the building in Chinatown at the SE Corner of Centre Street and 3rd Ave SW, had a development permit submitted for exterior renovations and the addition of a rooftop patio. For reference, here is what is there currently:
1646500289709.png


Here is the rendering from the DP drawings, which are now available in the DP link above:
1646500465343.png
 
Calgcouver said:
I would say demand isn't really location based, it is for any larger-scale and well marketed condo developments which there seems to be a bit more of in suburban locations right now. I don't think that many (if any) concrete condo projects will proceed like Great Gulf's Highcliffe Riverfront project because i do not think that the ROI and acheivable $psf people will pay will support concrete construction. For that to happen i think we would need to see achievable $psf on inner-city or TOD concrete condos hit closer to $650psf, and currently East Village condos are around $530-550psf. This estimate could be wrong now and would only be pushed higher with the volatility of construction materials right now. In my opinion, this is why you are basically only seeing wood-frame condos going forward, and why Theodore and First & Park are aspirationally-priced outliers and why we won't see many more of those in the short or medium term. For example the only actively marketed suite in Theodore is asking $677psf which is really high and a pretty serious outlier. This is why when i see inner-city projects look for more FAR than can support 6-storey wood buildings (around 3-4FAR), it is obvious it will either be rental if it moves forward, or the project will sit forever unbuilt. That is why i am a big advocate for seeing basically everything be 6-stories, because at least then i know i can expect to see that building completed within 10 years. Too many people doing land-use for higher FARs to support mid and high-rise buildings, for those sites to sit underdeveloped or as parking lots with high hopes of a day that over $650psf would be achievable and I don't think that day will ever come, might as well get 3-4FAR and build something that you can actually complete and see an ROI in a reasonable amount of time. I would prefer to see others do what Qualex-Landmark did with Park Point 2 than waiting for this imaginary day when the condos are so popular that it will achieve $650psf consistently. In the bigger picture, Calgary releases so much developable greenfield land that home prices are pretty stable where demand isn't usually aggressively outstripping supply like we're seeing in Toronto and Vancouver which pushed condo prices sky-high in those regions, so i don't really see concrete condos being consistently profitable for developers.
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Why $650psf in Calgary? I remember looking at the Altus cost guide awhile back and they had construction costs for a highrise condo in Calgary at around $300psf. Assuming that's in the ballpark in today's market, wouldn't that leave enough room for a developer to be profitable if the market was in the $500-600psf range?
 
Disraeli said:
Why $650psf in Calgary? I remember looking at the Altus cost guide awhile back and they had construction costs for a highrise condo in Calgary at around $300psf. Assuming that's in the ballpark in today's market, wouldn't that leave enough room for a developer to be profitable if the market was in the $500-600psf range?
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With all the supply chain issues in the building industry this year, most if not all costs have soared dramatically. The company I work for saw an overall increase of 54% in material costs this past year which we do pass along to the customer. With the increase being so dramatic and while still trying to be competitive we have had to cut into our profit margins. So yes the overall price looks to be very profitable but percentage wise the developer is recouping a smaller percentage.
 
Kōsō said:
With all the supply chain issues in the building industry this year, most if not all costs have soared dramatically. The company I work for saw an overall increase of 54% in material costs this past year which we do pass along to the customer. With the increase being so dramatic and while still trying to be competitive we have had to cut into our profit margins. So yes the overall price looks to be very profitable but percentage wise the developer is recouping a smaller percentage.
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This is basically the answer. Also sharing what I’ve seen on concrete condo proformas typically and that approximate $psf was when net margin was usually getting close to where you would want to move forward with the project. It seemed to take until that threshold for concrete construction to take off in Surrey City Centre.

I haven’t been working on many concrete condo proformas in Calgary so I asked people I know who are doing them (usually from Vancouver based companies) and that’s the figure I keep hearing is what they would need to see to move on high rise for-sale projects generally
 
So they are clearly being risk averse about the Calgary condo market, which is understandable given its state the last five years and the uncertainty that exists globally at the moment. These are hard cost estimates for 2022 I was referring to, so overall $psf would be higher when you include land and services.
Screen Shot 2022-03-05 at 1.29.02 PM.png
 
MichaelS said:
It has been mentioned on the forum before, that the building in Chinatown at the SE Corner of Centre Street and 3rd Ave SW, had a development permit submitted for exterior renovations and the addition of a rooftop patio. For reference, here is what is there currently:
View attachment 383434

Here is the rendering from the DP drawings, which are now available in the DP link above:
View attachment 383437
Click to expand...
A rooftop in patio in that location would do very well
 
Habanero said:
Interesting that so many inner city people are singing the praises of density, what seem to oppose everything gets developed in their neighbourhood lol.
I suppose it’s probably more a case of the people running the community associations rather than the people who live in the neighbourhood.
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Boomers baby, fuck ‘em
1646802998179.gif
 
Confirmation that Telsec bought the Eau Claire YMCA in this David Parker column. From the notes part:
The YMCA Eau Claire site has been sold. Listed through JLL, it has been purchased by Calgary developer Telsec Properties Corp. The 113,000-square-foot building sits on a key piece of downtown land adjacent to the Eau Claire Market and by the Bow River Pathway. Telsec has no immediate plans for how it will redevelop the site but it has a fine record of quality developments in the city over the past 46 years. It recently purchased the former Jack Carter site at Glenmore Trail and Macleod Trail and, in partnership with Trico Homes, its Shawnessy Station three-building mixed-use development is well under construction.

calgaryherald.com

Bennett Jones marks a century of excellence in business law

Pat Maguire grew up in the small town of Millett, then moved to Edmonton to attend University of Alberta and graduated with a law degree. Beginning the job search h…
calgaryherald.com calgaryherald.com
 
MichaelS said:
Confirmation that Telsec bought the Eau Claire YMCA in this David Parker column. From the notes part:
The YMCA Eau Claire site has been sold. Listed through JLL, it has been purchased by Calgary developer Telsec Properties Corp. The 113,000-square-foot building sits on a key piece of downtown land adjacent to the Eau Claire Market and by the Bow River Pathway. Telsec has no immediate plans for how it will redevelop the site but it has a fine record of quality developments in the city over the past 46 years. It recently purchased the former Jack Carter site at Glenmore Trail and Macleod Trail and, in partnership with Trico Homes, its Shawnessy Station three-building mixed-use development is well under construction.

calgaryherald.com

Bennett Jones marks a century of excellence in business law

Pat Maguire grew up in the small town of Millett, then moved to Edmonton to attend University of Alberta and graduated with a law degree. Beginning the job search h…
calgaryherald.com calgaryherald.com
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What a odd area Eau Claire is; its seemingly desirable for its location near Prince's Island Park and the revamped pathway but zero headway is being made on many of the large scale developments in the surrounding area. If I'm a developer I'd gladly put my property/development around Eau Claire up against anything in the Beltline/East Village. Don't get me wrong I like seeing the Beltline and East Village develop but wouldn't you rather live around Eau Claire?
 
CalgaryTiger said:
What a odd area Eau Claire is; its seemingly desirable for its location near Prince's Island Park and the revamped pathway but zero headway is being made on many of the large scale developments in the surrounding area. If I'm a developer I'd gladly put my property/development around Eau Claire up against anything in the Beltline/East Village. Don't get me wrong I like seeing the Beltline and East Village develop but wouldn't you rather live around Eau Claire?
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The 70s/80s urban planning caused stagnation, just like in parts Toronto. Digging out of that hole is hard.

How CMLC & BOSA were able to attract Loblaws would be worthy of a long form urbanism/business/development magazine article.
 
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