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Urban Development and Proposals Discussion

YYCguy said:
I know that micro units are very en vogue right now, and they work great in places like Europe and Asia where homeowners spend the majority of their time outside of their homes. But to me, Calgary isnt one of those places that is vibrant or exciting enough to make me want to spend most of my time outside of my home (especially in winter).
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And just a different lifestyle. Almost nobody lives in SFH in those places, so, there are many more places for people to gather - food halls, coffee shops with multi-level seating, malls, etc. Conversely, almost nobody has a large kitchen, a backyard. Sports that require lots of equipment are far less popular in Asia because there's just no place to put these things. So there are tradeoffs too.
 
YYCguy said:
I know that micro units are very en vogue right now, and they work great in places like Europe and Asia where homeowners spend the majority of their time outside of their homes. But to me, Calgary isnt one of those places that is vibrant or exciting enough to make me want to spend most of my time outside of my home (especially in winter).
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My perspective on micro-units is coloured by the Toronto condo crash that dominates the Canadian conversation on this, where they have really shown the limitations of tiny units.

Important context though - some of the bad feelings are really unique to Toronto's condo market and are too often discussed from the perspective of the individual owner/investor, as if that's the only purpose of housing. Some examples of the issues for small units are:
  1. Too many units sold as investments to individual owners assuming prices always rise
  2. A now obviously narrower-than-expected market segment that is willing to pay the rents required to support a ginormous mortgage on a small unit
  3. unattractive rental prices held up by landlords to try to minimize their increasing losses
But lower than expected demand for small units, does not mean zero demand for small units.

In this case and for Calgary, I am assuming this development will not be for sale, just a purpose-built rental. That changes the paradigm a bit - if they think there's a market for smaller units, go for it. A single apartment building owner has better control on the building's design and operating costs too, compared to an amenity-bloated for-sale condo.

Like most housing sub-markets, I think it's sometimes hard to imagine a different style of housing being popular to what someone is used to. But there's nearly 2 million people out there in the city, with a huge range of perspectives, housing needs and incomes. A few hundred small units in a perfect location probably has a market.

What's the worst that can happen if corporate landowners guess the demand for smaller units wrong and over-build? The units will eventually find a niche being a sub-optimal, but price-competitive, option compared to more in-demand unit types that are larger.
 
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CBBarnett said:
A few hundred small units in a perfect location probably has a market.
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Interestingly, if you look at what is still available in a building like Sovereign, it is these small units. In buildings like this, and Sovereign, I think these units would be best suited to Airbnb and Vrbo units. Currently there are no hotels in the area and even when there will be, having a small kitchen could be something someone wants versus a hotel stay?

I'm not someone who would do it but I could see it paying off especially during Stampede and the summer months.
 
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CBBarnett said:
My perspective on micro-units is coloured by the Toronto condo crash that dominates the Canadian conversation on this, where they have really shown the limitations of tiny units.

Important context though - some of the bad feelings are really unique to Toronto's condo market and are too often discussed from the perspective of the individual owner/investor, as if that's the only purpose of housing. Some examples of the issues for small units are:
  1. Too many units sold as investments to individual owners assuming prices always rise
  2. A now obviously narrower-than-expected market segment that is willing to pay the rents required to support a ginormous mortgage on a small unit
  3. unattractive rental prices held up by landlords to try to minimize their increasing losses
But lower than expected demand for small units, does not mean zero demand for small units.

In this case and for Calgary, I am assuming this development will not be for sale, just a purpose-built rental. That changes the paradigm a bit - if they think there's a market for smaller units, go for it. A single apartment building owner has better control on the building's design and operating costs too, compared to an amenity-bloated for-sale condo.

Like most housing sub-markets, I think it's sometimes hard to imagine a different style of housing being popular to what someone is used to. But there's nearly 2 million people out there in the city, with a huge range of perspectives, housing needs and incomes. A few hundred small units in a perfect location probably has a market.

What's the worst that can happen if corporate landowners guess the demand for smaller units wrong and over-build? The units will eventually find a niche being a sub-optimal, but price-competitive, option compared to more in-demand unit types that are larger.
Click to expand...
Purpose built makes a big difference. It's perfectly reasonable for there to be demand for all types of housing sizes and styles, the issue with the Toronto market was the units were built for investment purposes, and the reality is most of these people are bad investors. Buying a suburban house for $200k and being lucky that it's now worth $1.5M doesn't make someone a real estate investor, but a lot of them think prices rose, so buying more = more profit. Purpose built rentals are catering to the end consumer, so they're less likely to oversaturate the market with one housing type.
 
Is Keynote 4 still a thing?
Or is this for something completely different?
IMG_5557.jpeg
 
Interesting that this has surfaced again. I thought it was long dead. It has a new title now as the address is slightly different than the one on the previous permit, but overall still looks to be the same proposal.
 
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