Urban Development and Proposals Discussion

[adamyyc]

As someone who owns and lives in one of the infills on 33rd, I can tell you what my motivation was when I bought 5-6 years ago). We love the neighborhood and the walkability of Marda Loop, but at the time the same home 2 streets north/south cost $200k+ more.

We took the risk buying our home because at the time, the City was proposing land use changes for the area, and were proposing to upzone 33rd Ave between 14 St and 19 St as M-H1. Our thinking was that eventually, the value of the land beneath our and our neighbours’ infill homes would exceed the value of the homes themselves, once all 50’ lots had been developed.

Unfortunately, the City chickened out and didn’t upzone the whole neighbourhood, just the BIA, and instead of the Mainstreet we are all envisioning, we are getting a mishmash of 5-6 story buildings, and R-CG and H-GO” developments.

I don’t regret our purchase, because I love our home and neighborhood, and have no issue with the increases in density happening around me (I welcome them because they mean more retail, restaurants, and services), but I would get out of the way to make way for more housing on the Main Street if the City would make my property valuable enough for a developer to want to build on it (i.e., higher density).

 

[CalgaryTiger]

As someone who owns and lives in one of the infills on 33rd, I can tell you what my motivation was when I bought 5-6 years ago). We love the neighborhood and the walkability of Marda Loop, but at the time the same home 2 streets north/south cost $200k+ more.

We took the risk buying our home because at the time, the City was proposing land use changes for the area, and were proposing to upzone 33rd Ave between 14 St and 19 St as M-H1. Our thinking was that eventually, the value of the land beneath our and our neighbours’ infill homes would exceed the value of the homes themselves, once all 50’ lots had been developed.

Unfortunately, the City chickened out and didn’t upzone the whole neighbourhood, just the BIA, and instead of the Mainstreet we are all envisioning, we are getting a mishmash of 5-6 story buildings, and R-CG and H-GO” developments.

I don’t regret our purchase, because I love our home and neighborhood, and have no issue with the increases in density happening around me (I welcome them because they mean more retail, restaurants, and services), but I would get out of the way to make way for more housing on the Main Street if the City would make my property valuable enough for a developer to want to build on it (i.e., higher density).

Pardon me for prying but when was your infill built?

Do you think there will be a desire for a developer to pay the higher premium for a newer infill than for multiple 50' lots?

 

[adamyyc]

Pardon me for prying but when was your infill built?

Do you think there will be a desire for a developer to pay the higher premium for a newer infill than for multiple 50' lots?

2013. No, I don’t think a developer would put a premium on the smaller infill lots,. My thought was that eventually, those 50’ lots will all be redeveloped, and the 25’ infill lots will become the next redevelopment candidates in a desired neighbourhood. I have no interest/plans to move any time soon (this is our 10-20 year home), but it’s hard to estimate what a development horizon might be. Realistically (and some of my neighbours have discussed this), the adjoining infills would sell as a block (one negotiation). But that’s still a long time from now.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

2013. No, I don’t think a developer would put a premium on the smaller infill lots,. My thought was that eventually, those 50’ lots will all be redeveloped, and the 25’ infill lots will become the next redevelopment candidates in a desired neighbourhood. I have no interest/plans to move any time soon (this is our 10-20 year home), but it’s hard to estimate what a development horizon might be. Realistically (and some of my neighbours have discussed this), the adjoining infills would sell as a block (one negotiation). But that’s still a long time from now.

Your neighbours across the alley are not going to love to hear that, at least some of them. I assume the price they would have to pay for multiple 25' foot lots would necessitate them to build at least a mid-rise building as I believe the margins on a 5 over 1 wouldn't be there for it to make sense.

 

[adamyyc]

Your neighbours across the alley are not going to love to hear that, at least some of them. I assume the price they would have to pay for multiple 25' foot lots would necessitate them to build at least a mid-rise building as I believe the margins on a 5 over 1 wouldn't be there for it to make sense.

Agreed. And mid-rise (7-8 stories) would be more easily justified if it were next to a 1+5 rather than a 3-story H-GO. I just think the City missed on the opportunity to upzone the Main Street and now new row housing is going to further impede the complete street that could have been.

 

[Calgcouver]

Agreed. And mid-rise (7-8 stories) would be more easily justified if it were next to a 1+5 rather than a 3-story H-GO. I just think the City missed on the opportunity to upzone the Main Street and now new row housing is going to further impede the complete street that could have been.

Good thread of discussion. I genuinely think the City has no idea what they are doing with the Main Streets policy and don’t understand what they are trying to create. The south has no decent main streets in the inner city that have a proper street wall scale, so the demand is pushed into Marda Loop. Macleod trail is what they talk about but they are completely unwilling to revise the traffic patterns to make it anywhere anyone would ever want to be on foot.

It’s a missing part of our MDP and they don’t want to acknowledge that Macleod Trail isn’t a future Main Street due to what mobility engineers at the city are willing to accept, and because of that we’re fucked. Streets appropriately scaled and with good connectivity are seeing overwhelming demand for mixed use and multifamily redevelopment. Elbow Drive being a Main Street could’ve take pressure off of 33rd, but it’s not a Main Street.

The City doesn’t know how to create useable main streets, only how to safeguard arterial main streets and keep the characteristics of the arterial intact for mobility engineers. They are also terrified of upsetting the communities when redesignating things on main streets (Elbow should be one, so should something like Northmount). But they are completely unwilling to address the road standards to change it that would require traffic calming to make them attractive for residential redevelopment. Oh

So in places like 33rd ave where the urban fabric is good, the street isn’t oversized, there’s a lot of demand to build. 33 ave and 14 st should be continuous mainstreets and then should transition to lower densities across the transect but the City chickened out as adamyyc eluded too.

So on streets with main street characteristics we are seeing a lot of pressure to redevelop (33 ave) vs other would be mainstreets like Macleod trail.

The renovation topic in urban development about the project at the NW corner of southbound Macleod and 17 ave is a great example. They prioritize traffic flow on Macleod to the sole detriment of 17 Ave as a Main Street at a super prominent location. Everything has clearly devolved into mobility engineering safeguarding Macleod trail from occasional garbage removal movements to the entire detriment of the more important 17 ave street interaction and public realm.

Whoever is in charge of urban main streets doesn’t seem to know what they want and they need to define wtf they are. Stop allowing stroad standards to dictate and maybe 33 ave wouldn’t be the only attractive mainstreet to redevelop in all of south calgary.

Fix your approach to your current main streets in the mdp or watch it all concentrate quickly in an area barely designed for it.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

There is a god:

London apartment block that deviates from plans must be torn down, says council

‘Blight on the landscape’ in Greenwich lacks promised gardens, children’s play areas and accessibility for wheelchair users

www.theguardian.com

Edit: from the article...

"the deviations noted by the council included a missing glazed curtain wall that was supposed to give the appearance of a sail, smaller balconies and windows, no roof gardens or children’s play areas and “non-accessible ‘accessible’ apartments that have steps to the balconies so that wheelchair users cannot use their outdoor space”.

There was supposed to be an underground car park, but that wasn’t built, the council said, and instead surface car parking occupied land that had been earmarked for gardens."

 

[Chinese_T]

There is a god:

London apartment block that deviates from plans must be torn down, says council

‘Blight on the landscape’ in Greenwich lacks promised gardens, children’s play areas and accessibility for wheelchair users

www.theguardian.com

Edit: from the article...

"the deviations noted by the council included a missing glazed curtain wall that was supposed to give the appearance of a sail, smaller balconies and windows, no roof gardens or children’s play areas and “non-accessible ‘accessible’ apartments that have steps to the balconies so that wheelchair users cannot use their outdoor space”.

There was supposed to be an underground car park, but that wasn’t built, the council said, and instead surface car parking occupied land that had been earmarked for gardens."

You get to choose one building in Calgary to do this to. What do you guys choose?

 

[haltcatchfire]

Darn, I though that meant the ugly London apartments on Macleod.

There is a god:

London apartment block that deviates from plans must be torn down, says council

‘Blight on the landscape’ in Greenwich lacks promised gardens, children’s play areas and accessibility for wheelchair users

www.theguardian.com

Edit: from the article...

"the deviations noted by the council included a missing glazed curtain wall that was supposed to give the appearance of a sail, smaller balconies and windows, no roof gardens or children’s play areas and “non-accessible ‘accessible’ apartments that have steps to the balconies so that wheelchair users cannot use their outdoor space”.

There was supposed to be an underground car park, but that wasn’t built, the council said, and instead surface car parking occupied land that had been earmarked for gardens."

 

[CalgaryTiger]

You get to choose one building in Calgary to do this to. What do you guys choose?

Has to be West Village podium, otherwise I can think of a few infills that should cause the developer to be fined.

 

[MichaelS]

You get to choose one building in Calgary to do this to. What do you guys choose?

The Bow, for not providing the 27 storey atriums, or more importantly, the cultural building on the south block that included the St. Regis hotel facade.

 

[Mountain Man]

You get to choose one building in Calgary to do this to. What do you guys choose?

That ugly thing off 16Ave by the university!

 

[CalgaryTiger]

That ugly thing off 16Ave by the university!

McMahon was fine back in the day when it was built... Haha I know you're referring to the Hub.

 

[Mountain Man]

McMahon was fine back in the day when it was built... Haha I know you're referring to the Hub.

McMahon is quite the eyesore as well. I do feel like once we have a new arena we will have to discuss a massive renovation there. Would love a new stadium, but I don't see that happening unless we get an NFL or MLB team haha.

 

[Duck Lightning]

In my dreams the perfect rebuild would be if the University sold the McMahon lands back to the city and a new indoor stadium was built as part of the new Foothills Fieldhouse (similar to the indoor stadium proposed in CalgaryNEXT)