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Russia/Ukraine Conflict

AJX said:
I’m not up to speed on the history of the conflict. What happened seven years ago that, And what could the western countries have done differently over the past seven years?
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IN 2014, Russia took over Crimea, a Ukrainian territory/state. This was in response to the people of Ukraine booting out a pro-Putin president who resisted in the country joining the European Union. At the same time, Russia bolstered separatist forces in the Donbas region. That conflict has resulted in over 14,000 military and civilian deaths.The rest of the world could have sent a strong message to Putin at that time but instead imposed mostly weak sanctions. Obviously, Putin decided he could live with these and to use the old term 'give me an inch, I will take a mile".
 
The only thing the west could have done was put troops in Ukraine full time, and that would have marked a major escalation. I don't think anyone expected an actual full scale invasion of Ukraine, so an escalation like that would have been shocking!

Lets also remember that Putin had Trump on his side during much of the occupation of Crimea, so NATO was weakened significantly prior to all this. All I can say is thank Christ Trump isn't in power now, the US would be fully on Russia's side if he were!
 
AJX said:
I’m not up to speed on the history of the conflict. What happened seven years ago that, And what could the western countries have done differently over the past seven years?
Click to expand...
Russia annexed the Ukrainian Autonomous Oblast The Republic of Crimea, and also directly aided the separation of both Luhansk and Donetsk Oblasts as separatist "people's republics", though both only control about 40% of their respective Oblasts (claimed territory).

Though I'd disagree and say they did everything they absolutely could over those 7 years to rebuild their military. It may have been a mistake focussing the vast majority of efforts on the standing army rather than rebuilding the airforce and navy (in 2014, 1/2 of the navy defected to Russia, and another 1/4 was captured). Their last surviving Frigate, the Ukrainian Flagship, was scuttled in Mykolaiv on Sunday to prevent its capture.

Ukraine has about a dozen ships on order from the US and Turkey prior to the war, including two Turkish Corvettes, the first of which will become the new flagship and be the most advanced ships ever in the navy. It's not much, but it's a good start.

Either way, their resistance continues to be astounding, and will be an anti-Russian rallying cry for decades to come. "Russian warship, go fuck yourself" 💅🔥
 
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Interesting article regarding news from a supposed Russian FSB agent. How much of it is true or not, I don't know, but I agree with what has been said. I feel there isn't really any way for Russia to a get a victory out of this. History has taught us time and time again that occupying a country who doesn't want you there usually ends up a failure. Russia and others have already learned this from Afghanistan, and that's without all the sanctions that are hitting their economy. This'll be worse.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Russia is facing 'total failure', whistleblower analyst claims

The over 2,000-word report said that Russia's forces have 'no options to victory, only defeat' as they continue to meet strong Ukrainian resistance.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
This is a captured Russian colonel. He states without any signs of duress, that the invasion was created under false pretenses, that the Russian troops on the ground were misinformed (in other words lied to), and that Ukraine is owed an apology.
I think there is realization now by the Russians that they are in a huge 'dogfight' that they did not see coming. Ukraine is not going to roll over and if the Russians decide to occupy, it is going to be like Afghanistan all over again. That is .... if there is a country left to occupy. The careless bombing and destruction is truly sad to see, and not very 'genius' of Putin. In the end, what does he want to show for all of this?
 
I was reading something interesting yesterday. It was from Russians living in Ukraine, and are communicating with relatives back in Russia. When they tell their Russian relatives (parents, and siblings) in Russia about the war, many of them don't believe it....even when showed video or pictures! Goes to show how powerful propaganda can be.
 
Surrealplaces said:
I was reading something interesting yesterday. It was from Russians living in Ukraine, and are communicating with relatives back in Russia. When they tell their Russian relatives (parents, and siblings) in Russia about the war, many of them don't believe it....even when showed video or pictures! Goes to show how powerful propaganda can be.
Click to expand...
For sure. Trump proved that if you say the same thing over and over again, people will start to believe it. It worked in the U.S. with tens of millions of people, even with opposing views and facts to the contrary, widely available.
Putin accomplished his 'brain washing' with virtually no alternative narratives. Any opposing views or facts were quickly diminished or made to disappear. Both these tyrants have taken a page out of the Hitler/Goebbels playbook. It is sad that people can be so easily lead down the wrong path.
 
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Good point about the US. Even in a democratic country with freedom of speech, propaganda still had a strong effect. Imagine how much easier it is in countries like Russia or China where the government has control of the media.
 
Sounds like Belarus may be preparing to send soldiers and equipment into Ukraine now, Russia has really screwed themselves and seem to need all the help they can get!
 
Yeah. Sounds like west of Kyiv a bunch of Russian units are now cut off from what limited supplies they were getting and are soon to be prisoners of war unless they decide to attempt a misguided retreat.
 
Intelligence coming out of Belarus is that members of the military are very reluctant to fight Ukrainians. Why would they want to? Their country has not been threatened (other than perhaps by Russia). The Belarus president may be a lap dog to Putin but people with common sense know that there would be nothing to gain for Belarus. They would be subject to the same sanctions as Russia. I would be very surprised if we saw any troop movement from that country.
 
So proud to be Ukrainian. A categorically inferior force beating the absolute shit out of one of the most powerful militaries on the planet is pretty amazing. Not to make light out of the darkness and enormous death toll of both civilians and soldiers. Putin needs to catch a bullet.
 
That's the million dollar question, what can Russia gain from this? By all accounts from anyone outside of Russia who has studied all angles of this, is there is nothing to be gained, only loss.
 
This is simply a vanity project for Putin. He has not come to grips with the fact that even if the Russians are successful, they will occupy a country where infrastructure and thousands of buildings have been severely damaged; the economies of both countries will be reduced to zero so there will be no money to rebuild; the people of Ukraine who remain will hate Russia for the rest of their lives and also rebel at every opportunity; and the rest of the world will treat Putin and Russians in general, as pariahs.
No ....Putin is not a 'genius', Donald Trump ... he is as stupid, callous and vain as you.
 
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