News   Apr 03, 2020
Pastel Morning
 4.8K     1 
News   Apr 02, 2020
A Message to Our Readers
 6.6K     3 
News   Apr 02, 2020
Soon to be Gone
 3.8K     0 

Roads, Highways & Infrastructure

When was the GE5 project completed on Glenmore - 2007?
It still flowing 100x better than it did before the upgrade - no induced demand affecting that stretch.
 
FCC1982 said:
Yes - every week.
Much better than when there were lights at Elbow & 5th Street.
Click to expand...
I should be more specific about my issue with it. Sure, it moves but during even moderate volume there continuous near-miss or actual collisions. It is a bottle neck and they have just doubled down on it with bridge rehabilitation.
 
Deerfoot traffic seemed to be at its worst around 2006-2007. Traffic patterns have changed as Calgary's employment dispersion has changed.
 
Induced demand is not a universal concept that applies every time new infrastructure is built.

If we want an example of induced demand, Costco adding more rows of pumps at their gas station. That kind of think creates induced demand as there's just so much demand to feed it. The throughput is higher, but that attracts enough people that expect the line to be long so the line still is long anyway.
 
Given that Calgary is adding tens of thousands of people each year lately, this conversation is rather moot. More infrastructure of all types is needed to handle that growth. Of course traffic will eventually grow back to where it was in early 2023 on Sarcee Trail, that will happen when Calgary approaches 2-2.5 million people. It is also why the City is starting the study to do the functional planning design of the interchange of Bow/Sarcee:
globalnews.ca

Potential Bow Trail-Sarcee Trail overpass considered ahead of partial ring road west leg opening - Calgary | Globalnews.ca

With a new section of Stoney Trail set to open in the coming weeks, the city will be keeping a watchful eye on the impact it has on an intersection already plagued by congestion.
globalnews.ca globalnews.ca
 
christopherplace said:
Induced demand is just the notion that you when you build infrastructure, people will use it.

Inevitably, the creation of more roads will lead to more drivers on the road. That's induced demand in action.

Induced demand doesn't necessarily mean congestion on the new roads that are built.

Usually, the areas that suffer the most are the down-funnel destinations that people are trying to reach in their car.
Click to expand...
So what were all those extra people doing the past couple years when Stoney Tr wasn't complete in the west yet let alone where we're they a few days ago?

Are they suddenly going to go and buy a car because a new road was opened that goes to the same place the old one did? No.

Induced demand as you describe is a years long process of induced development due to new roads which then increases demand. Building a road will not materialize people and demand that doesn't exist. That thinking is just an urbanism excuse to oppose any sort of road project. The creation of roads allows the city to grow, that's more drivers on the road, more busses on the road with more people on the busses, and more bikes on some roads too.

Here's the other thing. It can apply to any/all forms of infrastructure, but it doesn't always for any of them.

The idea that this small stretch of road will induce demand in a couple months is nonsensical.
 
MichaelS said:
Given that Calgary is adding tens of thousands of people each year lately, this conversation is rather moot. More infrastructure of all types is needed to handle that growth. Of course traffic will eventually grow back to where it was in early 2023 on Sarcee Trail, that will happen when Calgary approaches 2-2.5 million people. It is also why the City is starting the study to do the functional planning design of the interchange of Bow/Sarcee:
globalnews.ca

Potential Bow Trail-Sarcee Trail overpass considered ahead of partial ring road west leg opening - Calgary | Globalnews.ca

With a new section of Stoney Trail set to open in the coming weeks, the city will be keeping a watchful eye on the impact it has on an intersection already plagued by congestion.
globalnews.ca globalnews.ca
Click to expand...
Whether an interchange is needed or not there, I think Richmond rd needs it more and also half of the problem at bow/sarcee is generally just being a poorly designed at-grade intersection.
 
I can see where induced demand could be a valid argument against simply adding more lanes to an existing highway, however in the case of Stoney trail and even the recent Crowchild bridge upgrades, those projects are making structural improvements to the overall flow of traffic, creating efficiencies where there weren't any or removing bottlenecks. In a city like Calgary where anyone who can afford to drive usually does I don't think these kinds of projects will result in more traffic in 10 years. Maybe you could make a case that adding lanes on deerfoot might, but I really think that these will improve traffic flows in west Calgary regardless of growth. That being said, we probably don't need any new freeways in this city for a long time, maybe ever.
 
Urban Outdoorsman said:
I can see where induced demand could be a valid argument against simply adding more lanes to an existing highway, however in the case of Stoney trail and even the recent Crowchild bridge upgrades, those projects are making structural improvements to the overall flow of traffic, creating efficiencies where there weren't any or removing bottlenecks. In a city like Calgary where anyone who can afford to drive usually does I don't think these kinds of projects will result in more traffic in 10 years. Maybe you could make a case that adding lanes on deerfoot might, but I really think that these will improve traffic flows in west Calgary regardless of growth. That being said, we probably don't need any new freeways in this city for a long time, maybe ever.
Click to expand...
Has there been any measured improvement on the Crowchild after those upgrades were completed? I drive over that bridge almost everyday and I don't notice much of a change.

One of the main problems with growing road capacity, is that it just shifts bottlenecks rather than removing them. Yes, people will be able to move *around* the city more quickly on the new ring road, but eventually they're going to want to get *into* the city. Once that happens, they'll get dumped onto the same old road network with the same capacity as before.

In terms of adding more traffic, the ring road will just speed up the rate of sprawl. It will pull investment toward previously inaccessible greenfields, which are cheaper to develop. Soon the newest, most attractive shopping centers and amenities will require longer drives to get to. The construction of fancy new YMCAs on the far outskirts of the city, combined with the closure of the downtown YMCA, is a perfect example of how more traffic is going to be generated.
 
It will be interesting to see changes on the turning movement from Bow East bound to Sarcee North bound. The mismatch in demand compared to west bound to south bound is 9-1 in the AM, and 2-1 in the PM.

The Sarcee South to south and north to north demand will likely shrink too.

You don't need much of a demand difference to get the intersection back into 'congested' instead of near failure.

And yeah, of course there will be induced demand. There will also just be more demand as population is increasing.

Silence&Motion said:
Has there been any measured improvement on the Crowchild after those upgrades were completed? I drive over that bridge almost everyday and I don't notice much of a change.
Click to expand...
For me, there was a huge improvement reverse commuting from the Beltline to the University.
 
Silence&Motion said:
Has there been any measured improvement on the Crowchild after those upgrades were completed? I drive over that bridge almost everyday and I don't notice much of a change.
Click to expand...
Heading northbound in the AM peak, the rightmost lane used to exit on to Bow Trail, and any traffic not headed there would have to squeeze into the left 2 lanes. Traffic would back up way past south of that point. This was especially noticeable post-2014 when proportionally less traffic was headed to Bow Trail/downtown in the AM.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top