Covid-19

[Chinook Arch]

I think the blame can be pointed at a few different parties. Kenny should shoulder some of the blame for acting slowly and trying to keep his base happy by not imposing restrictions until it was too late. In the end a lot of that blame goes to the UCP as a whole. They sent out mixed messages, like taking trips to Hawaii while asking others to stay home, and there are a number of MLAs in the party who have been vocally opposed to restrictions.

The average person needs to accept some blame also. There are a number of people who have been skirting the rules of meeting up in homes, etc.. I personally some who are NDP supporters who have done it, as well as people who are UCP supporters. That issue seems to be less related to politics, and more to the average person not taking it serious enough, and not tough enough to hunker down and stick with it.

Plenty of blame all around. I was surprised to see the number of cases spiking in Nova Scotia. Not near the numbers of Alberta, but for a province that had it seemingly under control, this is concerning.

 

[UrbanWarrior]

Usually I’d post this in one of the photo threads... but 17th was so packed yesterday it nearly gave me a panic attack. We’re seeing the biggest surge in Canada since Quebec’s first wave disaster... yet restaurants are allowing lineups along the sidewalk

 

[YourBoy007]

Usually I’d post this in one of the photo threads... but 17th was so packed yesterday it nearly gave me a panic attack. We’re seeing the biggest surge in Canada since Quebec’s first wave disaster... yet restaurants are allowing lineups along the sidewalk

I'm not against staying safe, however this is a beautiful sight to behold! So refreshing to see so many people out enjoying themselves. Goes to show that nobody really cares anymore. Soon this will all be over and the COVID-Karens will be irrelevant. Can't wait.

 

[zagox]

Usually I’d post this in one of the photo threads... but 17th was so packed yesterday it nearly gave me a panic attack. We’re seeing the biggest surge in Canada since Quebec’s first wave disaster... yet restaurants are allowing lineups along the sidewalk


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hospitalizations have been flat for more than a week, very low deaths due to previous vaccinations for elderly. Given we are vaccinating 1% of the population daily, do we really need to add more restrictions? I get that hospitalizations are a lagging indicator behind cases but how much longer do we have to wait before acknowledging that this wave is cresting?

 

[Chinook Arch]

hospitalizations have been flat for more than a week, very low deaths due to previous vaccinations for elderly. Given we are vaccinating 1% of the population daily, do we really need to add more restrictions? I get that hospitalizations are a lagging indicator behind cases but how much longer do we have to wait before acknowledging that this wave is cresting?

I don't know about adding more restrictions, but we need to be vigilante, the numbers look decent but there were still 22 deaths in the past 7 days,, and deaths aren't the only concern. 659 people are hospitalized which is very high for a rolling number. Many of the people who have been hospitalized are showing permanent damage to their lungs which often leads to long term chronic health problems. There are also reports of other health problems associated with people who have been hospitalized. The research is new, but it's quite possible we'll be finding out more as we go. Overall this is far from over, and could skyrocket quite easily, as we are still a while away from getting everyone vaccinated. Just ask places like Nova Scotia and India what happens when the numbers look good and you ease off.

 

[zagox]

I don't know about adding more restrictions, but we need to be vigilante, the numbers look decent but there were still 22 deaths in the past 7 days,, and deaths aren't the only concern. 659 people are hospitalized which is very high for a rolling number. Many of the people who have been hospitalized are showing permanent damage to their lungs which often leads to long term chronic health problems. There are also reports of other health problems associated with people who have been hospitalized. The research is new, but it's quite possible we'll be finding out more as we go. Overall this is far from over, and could skyrocket quite easily, as we are still a while away from getting everyone vaccinated. Just ask places like Nova Scotia and India what happens when the numbers look good and you ease off.

It’s very sad that this damage is occurring. However, the vast majority of people hospitalized with covid going forward are going to be those who were offered vaccines but declined to take them. I don’t think we should be closing elementary schools to minimize hospitalizations, only to ensure that spare hospital capacity exists. I currently don’t see evidence that we will reach the previous peak of hospitalizations even before we started closing schools.

 

[Tarsus]

IMO closing the schools seems logical. It’s much easier to close schools than to shut down businesses. It inconveniences some parents, but it’s only two weeks. Those dying or hospitalized from Covid are much more inconvenienced.

I agree with your point that going forward most of those dying or getting sick will be the people who didn’t get vaccinated, but I think we’re a couple of months away til we get to that point.

 

[MissingMiddle]

Interesting article from Washington Post: Why the worlds most vaccinated country is seeing an unprecedented spike in coronavirus cases.

Just want to point out, the idea that restrictions are the thing hurting businesses is foolish, ask yourself, what's the root cause? The fact that we allow Covid to persist at all is what's doing economic harm. The only reason things are closed now is because we didn't do enough sooner, and we didn't care about incoming cases. There's so much evidence that taking a Covid Zero approach is the best thing to do both economically and for the public health, and its been that way for the past 8 months.

Instead, we have people who think the rules are the problem. We're choosing to go down this path of restrictions vs. increased cases instead of taking some responsibility and fixing our problems so they don't continue to hurt us.


Lastly:

I'm not against staying safe, however this is a beautiful sight to behold! So refreshing to see so many people out enjoying themselves. Goes to show that nobody really cares anymore. Soon this will all be over and the COVID-Karens will be irrelevant. Can't wait.

This is either trolling, very poor satire, or just an uneducated stance, regardless, its sad you think this a good way to spend your time.

 

[zagox]

Interesting article from Washington Post: Why the worlds most vaccinated country is seeing an unprecedented spike in coronavirus cases.

Just want to point out, the idea that restrictions are the thing hurting businesses is foolish, ask yourself, what's the root cause? The fact that we allow Covid to persist at all is what's doing economic harm. The only reason things are closed now is because we didn't do enough sooner, and we didn't care about incoming cases. There's so much evidence that taking a Covid Zero approach is the best thing to do both economically and for the public health, and its been that way for the past 8 months.

Instead, we have people who think the rules are the problem. We're choosing to go down this path of restrictions vs. increased cases instead of taking some responsibility and fixing our problems so they don't continue to hurt us.


Lastly:

This is either trolling, very poor satire, or just an uneducated stance, regardless, its sad you think this a good way to spend your time.

Covid zero isn’t a realistic option and hasn’t been for a long time, and with widespread vaccine availability it would be unnecessarily destructive to achieve.

The Seychelles example points out that even at 60% vaccinated, Covid will still spread. However, it will very rarely cause serious illness in vaccinated people. What’s the conclusion? Vaccinate the people who want to be vaccinated and accept that there will be continued suffering among those who don’t choose to get vaccinated.

 

[YourBoy007]

Just want to point out, the idea that restrictions are the thing hurting businesses is foolish

You're saying I'm trolling. Oh, dear.

 

[darwink]

Covid zero isn’t a realistic option and hasn’t been for a long time, and with widespread vaccine availability it would be unnecessarily destructive to achieve.

The Seychelles example points out that even at 60% vaccinated, Covid will still spread. However, it will very rarely cause serious illness in vaccinated people. What’s the conclusion? Vaccinate the people who want to be vaccinated and accept that there will be continued suffering among those who don’t choose to get vaccinated.

You know, with widespread vaccine availability, we can ACCELERATE the removal of restrictions by driving down cases faster in the mean time right? Then the vaccines take care (hopefully) of keeping R below 1 from then on.

A problem people foresee is if vaccine hesitancy isn't random, but assortive, and we lift restrictions based on population wide restrictions, the people first to gather without restrictions will be the vaccine hesitant, and they will get sick and clog the hospitals just the same as the wider population. We have a version of this now, where once people thought old people were protected, they decided that the rules didn't matter anymore. Turns out they did.

Your assertion of "accept that there will be continued suffering among those who don’t choose to get vaccinated." would be ok if lets say, we decided that COVID wouldn't be covered by medicare unless you were vaccinated, and you had the choice to either buy COVID insurance, or get vaccinated. This would remove the massive negative externality people who refuse to be vaccinated cause to the wider population.

Do we want to live in a world where Alberta needs 500 beds for COVID patients forever? Almost like a new version of TB hospitals? I doubt those refusing to get vaccinated would enjoying paying more taxes to fund those hospitals.

 

[zagox]

You know, with widespread vaccine availability, we can ACCELERATE the removal of restrictions by driving down cases faster in the mean time right? Then the vaccines take care (hopefully) of keeping R below 1 from then on.

A problem people foresee is if vaccine hesitancy isn't random, but assortive, and we lift restrictions based on population wide restrictions, the people first to gather without restrictions will be the vaccine hesitant, and they will get sick and clog the hospitals just the same as the wider population. We have a version of this now, where once people thought old people were protected, they decided that the rules didn't matter anymore. Turns out they did.

Your assertion of "accept that there will be continued suffering among those who don’t choose to get vaccinated." would be ok if lets say, we decided that COVID wouldn't be covered by medicare unless you were vaccinated, and you had the choice to either buy COVID insurance, or get vaccinated. This would remove the massive negative externality people who refuse to be vaccinated cause to the wider population.

Do we want to live in a world where Alberta needs 500 beds for COVID patients forever? Almost like a new version of TB hospitals? I doubt those refusing to get vaccinated would enjoying paying more taxes to fund those hospitals.

i fully accept your point that restrictions in the short term may be needed to drive down the current wave, although I think we disagree on exactly how much short term pain is necessary to achieve that.

I think we need to accept that there will be dozens to hundreds of unvaccinated Albertans in hospital for the foreseeable future, with flare ups bad enough that the Back Forty Regional Hospital will be overwhelmed from time to time, and large outbreaks at Anti-Science Junior High and He-Man Work Camp will make news. Covid will just get added to the long list of public health crisis that disproportionately affect the poor and less educated, like obesity, smoking, diabetes, etc

 

[ByeByeBaby]

i fully accept your point that restrictions in the short term may be needed to drive down the current wave, although I think we disagree on exactly how much short term pain is necessary to achieve that.

I think we need to accept that there will be dozens to hundreds of unvaccinated Albertans in hospital for the foreseeable future, with flare ups bad enough that the Back Forty Regional Hospital will be overwhelmed from time to time, and large outbreaks at Anti-Science Junior High and He-Man Work Camp will make news. Covid will just get added to the long list of public health crisis that disproportionately affect the poor and less educated, like obesity, smoking, diabetes, etc

While you've been casually dismissing covid as only affecting people who choose to be unvaccinated, there are also people who cannot be vaccinated that you're throwing in the garbage as well, just so you can relax in your Just World mirage where bad things like disease only happens to bad people who have been bad.

 

[zagox]

While you've been casually dismissing covid as only affecting people who choose to be unvaccinated, there are also people who cannot be vaccinated that you're throwing in the garbage as well, just so you can relax in your Just World mirage where bad things like disease only happens to bad people who have been bad.

What percentage of people 12+ have medical conditions that prevent them from being able to be vaccinated? So far the only strong contraindications I've read about are for people with known anaphylactic reactions to the vaccine ingredients. As to kids under 12, the data so far indicate very, very low rates of severe COVID cases.

I am guessing that Alberta will have 20-40% of the 12+ population unvaccinated a couple months into universal availability, and of those 95%+ will have no medical reason to refuse it. I don't think the public policy debate is going to revolve around the last <5%, although I appreciate that it sucks for those people to be lumped in with Drew Barnes and his coalition of anti-science morons.

 

[Sambo]

I'm not against staying safe, however this is a beautiful sight to behold! So refreshing to see so many people out enjoying themselves. Goes to show that nobody really cares anymore. Soon this will all be over and the COVID-Karens will be irrelevant. Can't wait.

Albertans like you are too common unfortunately. The laughing stock of North America and I think we are in the top 10 worst list in the world for COVID cases. An embarrassing place to live now.