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Calgary's Downtown Dilemma

How indeed could we deal with unhoused people?

1) housing
2) housing
3) housing
4) housing
5) housing
6) housing in Edmonton
7) combination of the above

Hmmm...
Housing is the usual quick easy solution for fixing the homeless issue, but it only works to a limited degree. Because someone’s unhoused doesn’t mean a home will solve the issue.

Unless you can figure out a solution for the mental health and substance abuse issues, housing’s going to have a very limited affect. This isn’t Japan or Finland. This is a bigger version of Medicine Hat - the city that eradicated homelessness with a housing initiative, only to find the issue back to usual a year later.
 
When it comes to homeless people it would be good if we had a degree of severity index or such. The only thing all homeless people have in common is being unhoused, but that’s it. It’s not a good way to label group of people who have various issues. Solutions have to be applied to the address each issue.
Housing helps, but like many have already pointed out, it’s not the solution only part of it. For some, addictions and mental health issues caused them to be homeless, and for others it’s reverse, homelessness caused the addictions and mental health issues.
Also the question remains about those too severe to be helped. Housing isn’t going to help them.
 
We need to do a better job on affordable housing and housing for the homeless who can live on their own.
Different story for those who can’t live on their own, and there aren’t many options. Either leave them on the streets to fend for themselves and eventually die or create some sort of involuntary housing program. Forced rehab is the buzzword these days.
 
It's interesting the response to my provocative list which is literally the exact same list as SurrealPlaces with the cruelty removed. All of their more complex sophisticated solutions involve the state providing public housing. Jail is housing, plus meals, plus cruelty. Forced inpatient treatment in turn is jail plus deniability. Nobody said that housing was too simplistic because it didn't offer meals, which suggests that whatever we do with the homeless, it better be cruel to at least some of them.

I think one of the core problems in dealing with the homeless population is the just world fallacy; if we admitted that anybody could become homeless and it is just their bad luck, then we are also admitting we might be in this group tomorrow, which is terrifying. Better to treat them with 'sin talk' where they are all criminals or 'sick talk' where they are all uncontrollable addicts; we're neither of these things so we're safe.

The other interesting thing is how much pushback I got because housing isn't a total solution. We have a problem with unemployment; when someone posts about a new company expanding operations nobody scoffs that that isn't going to employ everybody. We have a problem with downtown office vacancy; a building being converted is seen as a positive step, not an unrealistic approach because there are other buildings still empty -- how could this be a realistic solution unless every square meter of unused floorspace is taken care of?

The third interesting thing is how much more pushback I got for suggesting housing than InfrastructureEnthusiast got for suggesting mass murder extermination.

When it comes to homeless people it would be good if we had a degree of severity index or such. The only thing all homeless people have in common is being unhoused, but that’s it. It’s not a good way to label group of people who have various issues. Solutions have to be applied to the address each issue.
Housing helps, but like many have already pointed out, it’s not the solution only part of it. For some, addictions and mental health issues caused them to be homeless, and for others it’s reverse, homelessness caused the addictions and mental health issues.
Also the question remains about those too severe to be helped. Housing isn’t going to help them.
I think this is actually working towards the key point; thinking of homeless people as a single group is useless for policy purposes and comes up with simplistic solutions. Any caseworker will tell you that every person who is unhoused has a unique set of issues and concerns. But this is too fine-grained to be workable.

As a straw man, let me propose three groups. Group 1 are people who would function perfectly well in society and a little help with housing for a few months is the only thing they need. Maybe they've left an abusive partner, or been thrown out from their parents home after coming out of the closet, or they drive as a gig job and their car's timing belt blew and they couldn't afford both repairs and rent. They could certainly benefit from other supports, but so could many or most people with stable housing. Group 2 are people who probably need housing for longer, and also more treatment or assistance; perhaps a fair portion of people at this level have some level of substance abuse or mental health issues or trauma that will cause an issue in supporting themselves in stable long-term housing. Group 3 are people who need long-term housing support as well as more intensive supports, and this might be for the rest of their lives.

What this suggests -- beyond different policies -- is the value of housing in prevention. Where do Group 2 and Group 3 people come from? Were they working a normal job, then the day they left their abusive spouse they wound up completely unable to stay in housing for the rest of their lives? Did they run out of couches to surf on and the next morning wake up addicted to fentanyl and threatening passerby? Or did they begin as Group 1, and then after spending time on the street, they 'graduated' to Group 2 and then if really unlucky Group 3? Homelessness is an extreme lifestyle compared to the 'norm', and people who spend time in situations with extreme lifestyles (prison, the military, in war) have a very difficult time adjusting back to the 'norm' when they leave those lifestyles. All of the behavioural choices that are adaptive for the extreme situation are not for the 'normal' one.

Fundamentally, homelessness causes homelessness. Being homeless is a great position to increase exposure to substance abuse, to be traumatized, to be injured, to become antisocial. And it's a terrible way to overcome mental health problems, to get a stable job, to kick a habit. And those problems make leaving homelessness more difficult. The second most important thing to reduce the homeless population is to minimize the time people spend being homeless.

The most important thing is to prevent people in Group 0, those at risk of homelessness (115,000 people in Calgary by recent estimate) from becoming homeless. This study shows that by far the strongest predictor of homelessness in Canada is low-end market rental rates. It also shows that Calgary is an outlier in having higher homelessness rates than expected; some of that I suspect is that Calgary is a city of migrants (both internal and international) so we have people with smaller social networks to fall back on, but I also notice in figure 18 that Calgary is an extreme outlier in having the lowest share of people in non-market housing or with cash supports; about 2.5% versus more like 4% on average.

Substance abuse and mental health disorders are both much more prevalent in the homeless population than the population at large, but they are not a 1:1 cause. Based on federal rates, Calgary has around 36,000 users of crack or cocaine, and 120,000 users of opioids. But the most recent point in time count for homelessness found 3600 people; 10% as many as the number of crack/cocaine users. And that point in time count showed only 11% citing health and 16% substance use issues as being the cause of their homelessness; 35% blamed the lack of income. Certainly having an opioid addiction makes it more difficult to maintain stable housing, but nevertheless the majority of people who are addicted to opioids do so.

A different approach to three groups is in Kneebone et al's profile of homelessness in Calgary. They group shelter users into 'Transitional', 'Episodic' and 'Chronic'. Transitional users have an average of 1.74 episodes of homelessness lasting 8.4 days on average; episodic have 8.28 episodes of 15.9 days duration on average; chronic have 3.48 episodes of 927.1 days duration on average. Transitional users are 86% of shelter users, episodic are 12% and chronic are 2%. But in terms of resource use, the three groups are nearly equal; transitional users are 31% of beds, episodic are 34%, and chronic are 35%. Interestingly, further work by his group found about the same success rates for Housing First programs for transitional and chronic shelter users (58% and 51%; 55% across all populations), although lower success rates for episodic interestingly.

Housing first is not housing only, but it is housing first. Once the vast majority of people experiencing homelessness have housing and help, perhaps there is still a small number of people who remain homeless and who cannot be helped. At that point, we can be confident that our society is not creating more people in that condition, and we can decide whether we need to do something more drastic or whether a few eccentrics are alright.
 
It's interesting the response to my provocative list which is literally the exact same list as SurrealPlaces with the cruelty removed. All of their more complex sophisticated solutions involve the state providing public housing. Jail is housing, plus meals, plus cruelty. Forced inpatient treatment in turn is jail plus deniability. Nobody said that housing was too simplistic because it didn't offer meals, which suggests that whatever we do with the homeless, it better be cruel to at least some of them.
It’s because your list offered only one idea, an idea which we already know doesn’t fully work for everyone.
I also don’t think Surrealplaces’ list offers cruelty any more than already exists. He suggesting longer jail terms for repeat or violent offenders. That’s cruel? He’s suggesting involuntary housing for those who’s issues are so severe they can’t look after themselves. We’ve been doing that for mental patients for years. That’s more cruel than leaving them to die? He suggested housing for those who can be helped. Everyone is on board with that.
 
Before we get too far into this discussion about homelessness, I want to clear up a couple of things. My ‘list’ wasn’t meant to say those are things that will fix the issue of homelessness, but more of somewhat hyperbolic list of options in regards to Redstar’s question.
As I’ve said before in other posts, housing is the first option. Help as many homeless as you can help.
I still maintain that not all can be helped and for those too severe to be helped it’s a different conversation. We will have to look at other options on top of housing.
Somebody mentioned Medicine Hat and it's a good case to look at. It started out great but many of the issues came back. What next?
 
As a straw man, let me propose three groups. Group 1 are people who would function perfectly well in society and a little help with housing for a few months is the only thing they need. Maybe they've left an abusive partner, or been thrown out from their parents home after coming out of the closet, or they drive as a gig job and their car's timing belt blew and they couldn't afford both repairs and rent. They could certainly benefit from other supports, but so could many or most people with stable housing. Group 2 are people who probably need housing for longer, and also more treatment or assistance; perhaps a fair portion of people at this level have some level of substance abuse or mental health issues or trauma that will cause an issue in supporting themselves in stable long-term housing. Group 3 are people who need long-term housing support as well as more intensive supports, and this might be for the rest of their lives.

What this suggests -- beyond different policies -- is the value of housing in prevention. Where do Group 2 and Group 3 people come from? Were they working a normal job, then the day they left their abusive spouse they wound up completely unable to stay in housing for the rest of their lives? Did they run out of couches to surf on and the next morning wake up addicted to fentanyl and threatening passerby? Or did they begin as Group 1, and then after spending time on the street, they 'graduated' to Group 2 and then if really unlucky Group 3? Homelessness is an extreme lifestyle compared to the 'norm', and people who spend time in situations with extreme lifestyles (prison, the military, in war) have a very difficult time adjusting back to the 'norm' when they leave those lifestyles. All of the behavioural choices that are adaptive for the extreme situation are not for the 'normal' one.

Fundamentally, homelessness causes homelessness. Being homeless is a great position to increase exposure to substance abuse, to be traumatized, to be injured, to become antisocial. And it's a terrible way to overcome mental health problems, to get a stable job, to kick a habit. And those problems make leaving homelessness more difficult. The second most important thing to reduce the homeless population is to minimize the time people spend being homeless.

The most important thing is to prevent people in Group 0, those at risk of homelessness (115,000 people in Calgary by recent estimate) from becoming homeless. This study shows that by far the strongest predictor of homelessness in Canada is low-end market rental rates. It also shows that Calgary is an outlier in having higher homelessness rates than expected; some of that I suspect is that Calgary is a city of migrants (both internal and international) so we have people with smaller social networks to fall back on, but I also notice in figure 18 that Calgary is an extreme outlier in having the lowest share of people in non-market housing or with cash supports; about 2.5% versus more like 4% on average.

Substance abuse and mental health disorders are both much more prevalent in the homeless population than the population at large, but they are not a 1:1 cause. Based on federal rates, Calgary has around 36,000 users of crack or cocaine, and 120,000 users of opioids. But the most recent point in time count for homelessness found 3600 people; 10% as many as the number of crack/cocaine users. And that point in time count showed only 11% citing health and 16% substance use issues as being the cause of their homelessness; 35% blamed the lack of income. Certainly having an opioid addiction makes it more difficult to maintain stable housing, but nevertheless the majority of people who are addicted to opioids do so.
Agreed completely on helping the Group 1. And that's why I think the city needs to get much better at execution and hold their affordable housing departments accountable in delivering units. Because the users of these are not vocal politically, we've had Bridgeland Place kick out tenants since 2021 and isn't going to be done until 2027! SIX YEARS. Meanwhile, if they demolished that land, could've built 10 5+1 with thousands of units by now. If we are only housing Group 1, the affordable housing blocks of the before times would work great, but cities stopped building them because they were a hotspot for crime and drugs, ruining the housing options for group 1.


The other issue is that people don't fit neatly in Group 1/2/3. I don't think most people disagree that housing first will be enough for Group 1, and that we absolutely should provide it to Group 1. I'm sure the DIC would love all their clients to be Group 1, they provide them food and a place to stay and they get back on their feet. But inevitably, these services attract the group 2/3, making the service unsafe for Group 1. I think that's why you see the solutions proposed mainly to separate the Group 2/3 from our social support system, because they were not designed to actually help group 3. We expect people to want to do good, we give people autonomy in treatment, we give people options because the system was designed for Group 1, and it is showing that it is incapable to help the group 2/3 aside from keeping them alive by providing the most basic necessities, but isn't able to help them live full and productive lives. I think that's why you see solutions that are more radical to deal with group 2/3 because the current system isn't working.

Also have a small quibble with this system of group 1->2->3. I think what you'd find with a lot of the group 3, is that they were never part of the group 1. Many come from little parental/family support, may have lifelong health issues like FAS, and a lot of their issues happened as they transitioned form child to adulthood and have never lived productive adult lives. While I think some are simplifying the issue, I think many's suggestions and change of heart come from seeing the failure of the current system. That by allowing them to suffer on their own, while keeping our society's hands clean, is not actually helping anyone. Or should we agree it is necessary to violate some of their rights for their own good because they are no longer/were never able to make those decisions on their own.
 
I agree with what others have said in regards to a grading of classification of homeless or people close to being homeless.
Unfortunately too often the homeless population is generally lumped into one group, but it’s really is a variety of issues and types.
A good system of identifying the groups would make it easier to focus the solutions.
 
None of the prisons are funded from municipal budgets. Edmonton hosts most of the prisons for Alberta, but they're funded by the province or the federal government. If anything it's creating jobs for the Edmonton area, you should be happy with the situation.
^^^This. Edmonton disproportionately benefits from a higher concentration of provincial government jobs.

A similar argument can be made re: how other provinces also disproportionately benefit from federal government jobs compared to Alberta.
 
None of the prisons are funded from municipal budgets. Edmonton hosts most of the prisons for Alberta, but they're funded by the province or the federal government. If anything it's creating jobs for the Edmonton area, you should be happy with the situation.
I think you guys are misunderstanding. Prisons are obviously paid for by the province and Feds.

But many of the prisoners aren’t from the city. They come in from elsewhere. But when released, they end up in the city.

So the policing, fire for ODs and arsons, vandalism, disorder, shelters/social services, etc all land on the municipality.

In Edmonton’s case, we have the highest concentration of prisoners in canada. The majority aren’t from Edmonton. It’s unfair and places a HUGE burden on locals. Which is why the province and Feds need to both give Edmonton more funding than Calgary who doesn’t bear the burden, and also why all future prisons need to be built in other cities, like Calgary, to more equitably carry the burden.

Here’s an article: https://edmonton.citynews.ca/2024/12/19/inmates-edmonton-report-prison-jail/

Here’s an example of the unfairness…
“In addition to the eight federal and provincial detention centres in Edmonton, inmates from Bowden Institute, just one hour north of Calgary, are driven two hours to be released in Alberta’s capital.“

No offense, but the “it creates jobs” arguement is so tone deaf. You think a few hundred average paying jobs is worth us having 3x the criminals released back into our city with a high reoffending rate?

And sure, there’s dozens of other categories we can argue about in terms of funding equity as it relates to education taxes, universities, grant programs, which city had 300mil given to them for an arena and which didn’t, etc. But on the topic of homelessness, crime, and disorder, Edmonton is getting screwed by the current setup.


Another article: https://edmontonjournal.com/news/cr...han-any-other-big-city-in-canada-stats-reveal

“Edmonton has a disproportionate number of parolees, the Correctional Services Canada numbers suggest. The city is home to around 2.5 per cent of Canada’s population, but 7.15 per cent of federal inmates who are serving part of a sentence outside prison. It has double Calgary’s number of offenders per capita (31 per 100,000), and more than Toronto (19), Ottawa (27), Winnipeg (49), Vancouver (44) and Montreal (53).”

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@thommyjo with all due respect, you posted this same rant a while back and it was pointed out to you that Edmonton municipal taxpayers do not fund the prisons. Please don’t bring up this rant again until you’ve done some research.
Never posted this before, and literally not my argument. Never said prisons are municipally funded lol. That’s obvious.

What is municipal is the majority of costs associated with dealing with criminals/poverty in a city. More criminals, more costs for policing, overdoses, vandalism, lost investment and business taxes, more social services. There’s also higher security costs to businesses and residents, safety issues, people stop using transit and are forced to pay for a car/parking.

Feel free to read the articles I’ve linked and let me know what you think. I’d gladly give Calgary a few hundred prison guard and admin jobs for you guys to have 3x the prisoner population vs Edmonton. Would save us a ton of money.
 

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