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Calgary's Downtown Dilemma

Roaring Flames said:
A one day crackdown might as well be a parade for all it'll do. They need a long term sustained plan for the area if they want to actually solve any issues. I'll give it a month before it's back to being as bad as before.
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I'd give it a few days. Anyone arrested won't be held any longer than that. Those given a ticket to pay a fine probably don't have the money to pay for it. IMO, it's nothing more than a publicity stunt.

I'm all for extra policing around the core, but only to a certain extent. If the extra policing starts costing several millions, it would be better spent on extra housing for those who can be helped. for those who can't be helped, that's a whole new discussion, and the solution will be something beyond the city or the local police force.
 
In this article, there's a section on a unhoused man that got a ticket for throwing a cigarette butt on the ground (he was actually fined under the incorrect section):

One of the individuals caught up during the sweep was Grant Robinson, an unhoused individual who was given a ticket by a CPS officer for allegedly throwing a cigarette butt on the ground, and was fined under section 178 of Alberta’s Environmental Protection and Enhancement Act for disposal of waste on public land (although the ticket shown to LWC by Robinson referenced section 179 of the act, which is waste on highways and not disposal of waste on public land).

livewirecalgary.com

'Operation Order' leads to downtown sweep by Calgary Police Service - LiveWire Calgary

Calgary Police Service officers gathered en masse in the downtown on Nov. 5, for what the service was calling Operation Order, to crack down on crime and social disorder. Dozens of officers from all districts across the city were briefed and sent on patrol in the East Village, Stephen Avenue...
livewirecalgary.com livewirecalgary.com

If this is what they were giving tickets for then this was an absolute waste of time and resources. Performative policing is exactly what people want to see though; someone woke up in Tuscany this morning and felt a little better about coming downtown. I know I hate stepping on cigarette butts.
 
Surrealplaces said:
I'd give it a few days. Anyone arrested won't be held any longer than that. Those given a ticket to pay a fine probably don't have the money to pay for it. IMO, it's nothing more than a publicity stunt.

I'm all for extra policing around the core, but only to a certain extent. If the extra policing starts costing several millions, it would be better spent on extra housing for those who can be helped. for those who can't be helped, that's a whole new discussion, and the solution will be something beyond the city or the local police force.
Click to expand...

Yeah 100 officers for 20 arrests isn't a great ratio...

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Roaring Flames said:
A one day crackdown might as well be a parade for all it'll do. They need a long term sustained plan for the area if they want to actually solve any issues. I'll give it a month before it's back to being as bad as before.
Click to expand...

I suspect you're right. Maybe its time for the city to try another agency?

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Giving a ticket to a homeless guy for littering is a waste of everyone's time. We know it won't get paid, and what can they really do if he doesn't pay it? They need to take a run at solving the root cause.

I know there's only so much the city can do within its power, but even if they could get 25% of the people off the street it helps clear up the picture.
 
Surrealplaces said:
Giving a ticket to a homeless guy for littering is a waste of everyone's time. We know it won't get paid, and what can they really do if he doesn't pay it? They need to take a run at solving the root cause.

I know there's only so much the city can do within its power, but even if they could get 25% of the people off the street it helps clear up the picture.
Click to expand...
I believe visible police presence does deter crime, especially crime of opportunity. What would be better is if we more regularly see police presence on bikes, walking downtown, even just 2 or 3 officers, than these useless blitz where they all line up for a photo op in front of the library. The sad part is the first won't make the news, will only be noticed by people actually going/living downtown, while the second, helps the suburbanites too scared to come downtown feel better about downtown. And our priorities clearly rest with the latter group.
 
trtcttc said:
I believe visible police presence does deter crime, especially crime of opportunity. What would be better is if we more regularly see police presence on bikes, walking downtown, even just 2 or 3 officers, than these useless blitz where they all line up for a photo op in front of the library. The sad part is the first won't make the news, will only be noticed by people actually going/living downtown, while the second, helps the suburbanites too scared to come downtown feel better about downtown. And our priorities clearly rest with the latter group.
Click to expand...

Do we have beat cops in Calgary? I know I've seen them out on bikes on the pathways a few times over the summer, but that's hardly an area that attracts a lot of crime. I would imagine having a few patrols throughout the downtown (on foot!) at any given time would definitely go a long way to deterring visible crime/drug use.
 
Why don’t they just send out 5 officers everyday to “tent city” outside the drop-in centre to dismantle tents and seize illegal drugs? Every day they should be out there. If nothing else it keeps the area cleaner and safer and removes drugs. Maybe it might even start to deter individuals from setting up shop there in the first place. Everyone knows and can see with their eyes that it is the biggest hotspot in the city.
 
Surrealplaces said:
Giving a ticket to a homeless guy for littering is a waste of everyone's time. We know it won't get paid, and what can they really do if he doesn't pay it? They need to take a run at solving the root cause.

I know there's only so much the city can do within its power, but even if they could get 25% of the people off the street it helps clear up the picture.
Click to expand...
I agree. What do you suggest should be done?
 
The Familia said:
Why don’t they just send out 5 officers everyday to “tent city” outside the drop-in centre to dismantle tents and seize illegal drugs? Every day they should be out there. If nothing else it keeps the area cleaner and safer and removes drugs. Maybe it might even start to deter individuals from setting up shop there in the first place. Everyone knows and can see with their eyes that it is the biggest hotspot in the city.
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Because then those guys will just go commit more crimes to buy more drugs and steal more tents. It's all futile. The DI area is always gonna be pretty rough, but if they aren't really bothering anyone then its not the worst thing to let them be.
 
If you look through this thread there's lots of solutions, but most are unworkable, require more money than people are willing to pay for, or just shift problems elsewhere. With that reality, what the city should be doing is simply having regular patrols and resources in the area. They reopened the Safety Hub (not sure how well staffed by actual officers it is), but a more regular officer presence would be helpful. The issues will remain, but at least everyday citizens (I mean citizens of Calgary, not some coded nationalist thing) can pass by the area and go about their day feeling safe and not being harassed. From anecdotal evidence, people that live in Arris actually finds safety ok, because there's regular patrols by security guards. Even if they can't do any actual enforcement, the presence alone helps improve safety.
 
Red Star said:
I agree. What do you suggest should be done?
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I'm not opposed to extra policing for the sake of public security, but it feels like these police initiatives are a bandaid solution and the money would be better spent on other solutions. Whatever we do, it'll involve spending money, and so many of those who cry out about the issues are the same ones who don't want to spend the money. Also of course it comes down to who foots the bill. The city? the province or the feds?

From a high level view of simplicity there are a few options.

1) lock up all offenders and if they are a violent or repeat a offender, keep them in jail for a long period.
2) lock up all offenders and if the offender has a substance abuse issue, keep them in jail for a long period
3) lock up all offenders and if the offender has a substance abuse issue, keep them in forced rehab
4) for those with severe mental health issues keep them locked up in forced treatment
5) for those who aren't violent and don't have mental health issues and don't have substance abuse issues, get them into some sort of housing
6) offer homeless people a free uber chit for a trip to Edmonton lol
7) some sort of combination of all of the above

Without being an expert on homeless issues, option 7, while being the most expensive, seems like the most likely to succeed.
 
I don't disagree with these solutions and extremely harsh punishment for drug use, as seen in East Asia, has largely prevented these drug use problems from developing in vulnerable populations. However, the large majority of Canadians do not. There's the obvious legal issues, but if a government used the notwithstanding clause to lock up offenders on small time offences, and we are now criminalizing fentanyl use with 20 year prison sentence, they'd lose political support quickly. The public has turned around on forced rehab, but it's only in the most extreme circumstances, that the majority of people just on drugs won't be far gone enough to qualify for forced rehab. Unless there is a change in public sentiment and on when personal freedoms can be taken away, we're stuck in the current stasis.
 
Surrealplaces said:
I'm not opposed to extra policing for the sake of public security, but it feels like these police initiatives are a bandaid solution and the money would be better spent on other solutions. Whatever we do, it'll involve spending money, and so many of those who cry out about the issues are the same ones who don't want to spend the money. Also of course it comes down to who foots the bill. The city? the province or the feds?

From a high level view of simplicity there are a few options.

1) lock up all offenders and if they are a violent or repeat a offender, keep them in jail for a long period.
2) lock up all offenders and if the offender has a substance abuse issue, keep them in jail for a long period
3) lock up all offenders and if the offender has a substance abuse issue, keep them in forced rehab
4) for those with severe mental health issues keep them locked up in forced treatment
5) for those who aren't violent and don't have mental health issues and don't have substance abuse issues, get them into some sort of housing
6) offer homeless people a free uber chit for a trip to Edmonton Vancouver lol
7) some sort of combination of all of the above

Without being an expert on homeless issues, option 7, while being the most expensive, seems like the most likely to succeed.
Click to expand...
I'll take options 1,3,4,5 and 6 with a slight modification for option 6.
 
I think, generally, people are fine with harsh sentences, but the issue is that is too broad of a brush, and our lawyer class will not stand for it.

In other societies it is accepted that you lose your rights at a certain point, here, it is those that are at that certain point that actually have the greatest rights.

The mayor and council are teasing more coming of safety, curious what they'll prescribe. I think this "show of force" was a show and tell from the Police Chief for the new council on what more officers would look like. To me, it looked like handing out tickets to an unhoused person for throwing their cigarette on the ground. These shows need to be solution-based and more consistent.
 
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