Springbank Hill | ?m | ?s | Multiple Projects

[CBBarnett]

Drove by on the weekend and was saddened to see what that area has become. Having lived near Aspen 13 years ago I remember how bucolic the acreages in the valley were. Now they just clearcut everything and left no aspens at all. Could they not have preserved some on the fringes between developments? Also the townhomes fronting 85th St. are just weird and seem unsafe.

I grew up not far from this area, I recall the forests and narrow roads that was the 85th and 17th Avenue intersection. The thing I remember is that they were just quiet backroads with the aspen forests right next to them. Very pretty in the fall with the leaves changing, as in this aerial photo.

Here's 2003:

Here again, 2023:

Yikes ..... that's a huge amount of forest destruction, massive re-grading the natural topography in the area, now complete with a hodge-podge of car-oriented neighbourhood designs and some massive Calgary-style arterial right-of-ways (some of which is width preserved for the LRT of course). I think 17th Avenue's width went up 3 - 5 fold in 20 years?

Doubly ironically, not only is the largest intact stand of forest is the future LRT site so will also be removed one day, but that LRT site itself is inconveniently located far from the density and the main intersection of 17th Avenue and 85th Street. The best TOD location in the area unfortunately went the route that many key areas do in our burbs - storm ponds.

All that said, people got to live somewhere and the overall area along 85th Street is hitting some other good marks for density, retail and design. But some painful lessons learned here too - we should do all we can to avoid this level of natural area destruction - it was such an asset that could have been leveraged and integrated into development, not just ignored and plowed under. From that lens this area's design and trajectory has not been a win.

 

[lemongrab]

Drove by on the weekend and was saddened to see what that area has become. Having lived near Aspen 13 years ago I remember how bucolic the acreages in the valley were. Now they just clearcut everything and left no aspens at all. Could they not have preserved some on the fringes between developments? Also the townhomes fronting 85th St. are just weird and seem unsafe.

There is a 2 car garage for each unit, so you can count on plenty of cars parked on the street to help calm speeds !

It does feel a bit weird, but I wish all collector roads were narrow and windy.

 

[CBBarnett]

There is a 2 car garage for each unit, so you can count on plenty of cars parked on the street to help calm speeds !

View attachment 598501


It does feel a bit weird, but I wish all collector roads were narrow and windy.

Part of the problem on that road is it's only 75% of it's way transitioning from essentially a range road to collector. As such you have an in-ordinate amount of cut-through and speeding traffic, many drivers remember it's less populated days only a few years ago + more drivers than ever in the area.

Notably, there is zero traffic controls, stop signs or playground zones between Lower Springbank Road and 17th Ave SW, a total of 1.8km. In the land of high-end SUVs, this leads to high degree of speeding and cut-through traffic using 85th Street to skip slower routes. 69th Street SW, for comparison has 4 fully signalized intersection over that same stretch.

 

[O-tac]

Also those units stare directly at a dirt hill.

It does still feel like a country road and in addition to high speeding traffic it’s on a blind curve with a huge incline / dip. It’s especially dangerous in winter. I wouldn’t be surprised if a car flies into someone’s living room some day.

 

[lemongrab]

Also those units stare directly at a dirt hill.

It does still feel like a country road and in addition to high speeding traffic it’s on a blind curve with a huge incline / dip. It’s especially dangerous in winter. I wouldn’t be surprised if a car flies into someone’s living room some day.

I'd say it's more of a grassy knoll.

CB is right that part of the problem is the history of the road...a lot of people have muscle memory of going too fast there, even when the road was in terrible shape with a steep drop off.

Of course the google satellite is just a snapshot in time, but it really illustrates the utility of attached garage vs detached:

22 units detached garage: 20 cars on street in streetview (11 cars on satellite)
19 units attached garage: 5 cars streetview (4 cars satellite)

 

[GAK7]

Edited: I can't seem to find anything on the Summit 77 apartments online. Are the renderings from page 4 what we're looking at? Are these also rentals?

 

[MichaelS]

Photo update from today.

The Summit 77 townhomes are half complete, with some buildigs having occupancy by the looks of it, others still under construction:

The parkade for the Summit 77 Apartments is in:

The final landscapign is going in around The Willows complex:

The Elkwood Townhomes also appear to be nearing completion:

The parkade for Balsam Apartments is underway:

Same with the parkade for The Whitney:

Springbank Hill Estates is getting closer as well:

And lastly the Age Care facility:

 

[CalgaryTiger]

Lol that one called she.

Their marketing should for sure be: "She is her."

 

[CBBarnett]

Thanks for the updates as always @MichaelS - is there any way to know the total amount of units under construction on the hill? It's got to be several thousand units going ahead simultaneously I would think?

With so many large scale and reasonably dense developments occurring from scratch on or near the 85th Street West corridor at the same time, it's difficult to imagine how it will all stitch together. This will be both good and bad - lots of unique developments with tons of options and variety for people at reasonable density, close to many shops, but also seemingly little coordination for things like a proper cycling network or bus connections. One of the most interesting streets in the burbs to watch.

Considering the population was negligible about 20 years ago on that street, I am curious what a "complete" 85th Street corridor will look like? How many people will live within walking distance of this "main street" when the dust settles?

A more serious 85th Street bus route is likely needed in the future.

 

[HudsonA08]

I wonder why projects like this do not include transit before construction starts in Calgary. Why would you not extend the blue line at the same time as placing the infrastructure and roads in? Have the transit in place before you start selling units so people can plan how they want to live before forcing everyone to demand 2.5 parking spots per unit?

Seems like with all the developers wanting to leave the city with a massive infrastructure bill 30 years after they cash out, we could start asking for some infrastructure up front to be able to develop these areas.

I am new here so maybe I am ill-informed about city planning.

 

[UrbanWarrior]

I agree to an extent, but stuff like this can often take a long time to develop. The speed at which Springbank Hill and West District are going up, though, should make the city consider setting a solid timeline for the extension to 85th.

 

[MichaelS]

The route 98 already runs from 69th Street along 17th Ave, then up/down 85th Street into Cougar Ridge. it is a pretty good route, direct access to the C-Train. I am sure as occupancy occurs, and ridership grows, it would be easy enough for Calgary Transit to simply increase the frequency.

In terms of building large scale transit ahead of development, well, that is an expensive risk that doesn't always pay off:

City council mulls keeping Blatchford LRT station closed until neighbourhood fills out

The new LRT line into the Blatchford neighbourhood on the former municipal airport lands in north Edmonton is nearly complete, but one of the two new stations slated for it likely won't be open for years to come.

edmonton.ctvnews.ca

 

[lemongrab]

Thanks for the updates as always @MichaelS - is there any way to know the total amount of units under construction on the hill? It's got to be several thousand units going ahead simultaneously I would think?

With so many large scale and reasonably dense developments occurring from scratch on or near the 85th Street West corridor at the same time, it's difficult to imagine how it will all stitch together. This will be both good and bad - lots of unique developments with tons of options and variety for people at reasonable density, close to many shops, but also seemingly little coordination for things like a proper cycling network or bus connections. One of the most interesting streets in the burbs to watch.

Considering the population was negligible about 20 years ago on that street, I am curious what a "complete" 85th Street corridor will look like? How many people will live within walking distance of this "main street" when the dust settles?

A more serious 85th Street bus route is likely needed in the future.

The pathway network is generally excellent up here. A few gaps and issues of course, but there has been good progress on them (thanks to diligent 311 reporting by handsome citizen(s)).

The shopping areas kinda suck to use via active mode. I can't really take my kids to the ice cream shoppe on my bike. There are times I want to go to No Frills, but I opt for Strathcona Sobeys because the bike access is less annoying (but still kinda annoying). I'm not sure if they have permanently closed the corner entrance to No Frills or if it just has super limited hours. I think I prefer older style strip malls with one big parking lot and everything else contiguous compared to the piecemeal thing they've done here. I really wish 85th was a bit narrower and speed limit 50.

They've at least implemented bus only lanes for crossing Bow Tr. There is probably a good opportunity here for a high frequency loop and to rejig the shuttles a bit.

 

[HudsonA08]

The route 98 already runs from 69th Street along 17th Ave, then up/down 85th Street into Cougar Ridge. it is a pretty good route, direct access to the C-Train. I am sure as occupancy occurs, and ridership grows, it would be easy enough for Calgary Transit to simply increase the frequency.

In terms of building large scale transit ahead of development, well, that is an expensive risk that doesn't always pay off:

City council mulls keeping Blatchford LRT station closed until neighbourhood fills out

The new LRT line into the Blatchford neighbourhood on the former municipal airport lands in north Edmonton is nearly complete, but one of the two new stations slated for it likely won't be open for years to come.

edmonton.ctvnews.ca

Good points. I guess it's hard to know when to build it out. I just see all of the development that is and has happened into the NE and SW and now West Calgary where the LRT is supposed to expand into, and nothing is happening.

I would love to get rid of my cars, but it seems impossible in this City.

 

[CBBarnett]

I wonder why projects like this do not include transit before construction starts in Calgary. Why would you not extend the blue line at the same time as placing the infrastructure and roads in? Have the transit in place before you start selling units so people can plan how they want to live before forcing everyone to demand 2.5 parking spots per unit?

Seems like with all the developers wanting to leave the city with a massive infrastructure bill 30 years after they cash out, we could start asking for some infrastructure up front to be able to develop these areas.

As others discussed, the major stuff (LRT extensions) is really expensive and takes a long time to plan - tricky to get timing right, especially how our current development economics, politics and processes work. That said, plenty of more proactively planned places do exactly that - link new development directly with transit. Doing so embeds transit-orientation into the design from day 1. For Calgary, it would take a pretty substantial shift in how we do things and change who controls when and where suburban growth can occur to make happen - but is a nice long-term dream/goal.

Rather than the tricky, expensive big ticket items like a LRT, I think it's more illustrative to see the transit infrastructure design and timing gap on the small stuff. For example, here's the terrible bus stop with no sidewalks, covered in gravel at the EB 17th Avenue just east of 85th Street from June 2024. Looks about the same as it did 15 years ago.

So the interim state deemed acceptable by all our inter-related mobility and development processes and policies is as follows:

• For cars: fully built-out 4 lane road with dedicated turn lanes and right-lane slip lanes. We thought of everything and built it right!
  • including a currently blocked-off 2nd left turn lane for future capacity turned from SB 85th to EB 17th)
  • 
• A gravel covered, sidewalk-less bus stop with 2 haphazard benches all in the splash-zone of high-speed SUV traffic.
  • I mean - we can't even get a curb cut and ramp for a stroller here? We literally have future-proofed a turn lane 20 years in advance of when we need it, but a stroller or wheelchair access to real transit today is not considered necessary. Mind boggling.
  • 

That's the timing difference between transit and development that we should fix now - get sidewalks and transit infrastructure to at least parity with autos on opening day. If we can afford to future-proof turn lanes we can afford sidewalks and curb ramps everywhere. It's no wonder it's a car-only suburban world out there if this is an acceptable condition for 15 years (not to mention the bigger picture structural designs of all streets and communities in the area that also doesn't make it easy to use transit).