Scotia Place | 36.85m | 11s | CSEC | HOK

Do you support the proposal for the new arena?

  • Yes

    Votes: 103 67.3%

  • No

    Votes: 40 26.1%

  • Maybe

    Votes: 10 6.5%
  • Total voters
    153
Duck Lightning said:
My guess is the design is pretty much final. I doubt either party wants to dump more money into the project and waste more time redesigning the arena after essentially pausing the project for a year because of monetary disagreements right before the start of construction. I have to think both CSEC and the city are at this time hoping to have a new agreement in place before the development permit expires in November (I could be wrong on that date.)
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Development Permit is good for three years. Expirations aren’t really critical either as extensions are easy. Overall design won’t change.
 
I think a lot would depend on the deal struck. For example, would Calgarians be willing to accept essentially the same design if the City of Calgary ends up making a larger financial contribution? If the Flames end up getting more public dollars (which I think is a likely outcome) I won't be willing to accept the same crappy design we almost got for less money. Maybe I'm in the minority but given the amazing design that has been proposed for Ottawa since the Event Centre deal fell apart, I think Calgarians are going to be more demanding of what their public dollars buy, not less.
 
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I feel like lots of modern arenas try to blend into the aesthetic of the neighborhood and area. While it is not a beautiful design, it will probably fit with the high-rises and many of the buildings around EV and the future Entertainment district. If the go for something flashy, it could run risk looking outdated fast like the Saddledome (although I love it) or Rogers in Edmonton (which wont age well). As long as it is build to have a better experience for what it's purpose is and has a better urban design than the Saddledome, than I will be happy. Even Ottawa's renders look like an arena that will blend in with the building around it, not to stand out.

Realistically, Calgary was not gonna build something crazy like they did with the Saddledome. As long as it is not actually ugly, ill just be happy people will get a better experience inside the arena and the area around it is complimentary to it. The Saddledome has got to have one of the worst concourses and bathroom situations out of any arena. Add to the fact that it is just surrounded in a sea of asphalt. I think urban design will be the most important factor for me when they unveil the new plans again tbh than how it actually looks. All the proposed designs before the last one were average at best. We will get an average looking arena, but hopefully the inside is modern and efficient.
 
They're for sure keeping the earlier design. I've said this before but I'll repeat it now... If they add the old neon sign from the coral to the outside and have some wood elements on the inside to make it look at least somewhat like the rink in davos than it'll be a win. I mean just show us what it will actually look like and don't VE it after the fact and I'm sure we'll come onside.

I agree that the building doesn't need to be a special feat. Just at least partially keep the promise of helping to create a C+E district. I don't need the Vegas strip just don't give me a concrete canyon like they've built outside rogers in Edmonton. And c'mon CMLC since you're not doing the events centre give me something in EV it has slowed right down as the beltline and other areas hum along... Maybe just waiting for Arris to come across the finish line?
 
Speaking of the cost of the initial design...

livewirecalgary.com

Failed Event Centre deal costs Calgary $16.8 million - LiveWire Calgary

Costs for the failed Event Centre deal have been tallied, and the City of Calgary was on the hook for $16.8 million, according to a city briefing. The final closing costs for the previous Event Centre agreement were put into a mid-year-capital and operating revision report coming to this...
livewirecalgary.com livewirecalgary.com
 
outoftheice said:
Speaking of the cost of the initial design...

livewirecalgary.com

Failed Event Centre deal costs Calgary $16.8 million - LiveWire Calgary

Costs for the failed Event Centre deal have been tallied, and the City of Calgary was on the hook for $16.8 million, according to a city briefing. The final closing costs for the previous Event Centre agreement were put into a mid-year-capital and operating revision report coming to this...
livewirecalgary.com livewirecalgary.com
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14 and change of that is shared with CSEC also throwing in 14 so the actual cost of the work done is high 20s. Yeah, no way they throw that work away and start again. Especially considering design wasn't the hang up.
 
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Mountain Man said:
They have already spent the money on a design and the drawings were well under way when this was shelved. Would love to see them change it, especially given the backlash, but I doubt it.
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Sunk cost fallacy at play there.

That said, there wasn't much wrong with the floor plans. It was the elevations and streetscaping/landscape design that needed work. Much of the design work done would be salvageable even with a slight redesign.
 
artvandelay said:
Sunk cost fallacy at play there.

That said, there wasn't much wrong with the floor plans. It was the elevations and streetscaping/landscape design that needed work. Much of the design work done would be salvageable even with a slight redesign.
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An assumption being that we can afford a similar structure two years on. I dobut there will be much appetite to do so. Hence a redesign to remove expensive compromises. A very similar design would be less expensive on a larger footprint. A larger footprint would enable moving equipment which 'broke' the elevations/streetscape.

Now I think they should go even further to reduce costs, but that is a mugs game, it really depends who scoped in as many seats as ended up in the place and why.
 
Knock, knock...

From various people on Twitter:

The City of Calgary and Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corporation have agreed to restart formal discussions on a new arena deal.

In a news release, CSEC president and CEO John Bean says: "All parties share a collective desire to see a new event centre constructed in Calgary. We look forward to discussions with The City to see if we can find an acceptable path forward."

The city is bringing CAA ICON to advise in the negotiations. CAA ICON is a branch of the CAA agency which consults for "public/private sports and entertainment facility owners and operations, professional franchises, and leagues"
 
Duck Lightning said:
Damn beat me to it! Hopefully the city and CSEC can come to a new agreement before the end of the year!
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;) I don't think you go public with this if there isn't a back of the napkin deal already. That third-party hasn't been doing nothing for six months. CAA ICON will get a nice fee for copying and pasting.

Maybe cost certainty has stabilized enough to essentially put the old deal back on the table. Or maybe the city is willing to go 50/50 on cost overruns.

Edit: CCA ICON Portfolio
 
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Thank God. I went to the game yesterday and walking through the concourse was terrible, bathroom and food lineups were terrible. Everything looks so outdated. As someone who went spent a lot of time in San Fran and went to the Chase Centre, I didn't realize how bad the arena here was for an experience aspect.

I just hope the new design provides a good experience within in the inside, and the urban design around the arena will be top notch. Even if it is the same design as last agreement, ill take it. Hopefully without a parkade, but i guess it would be better than surface parking surrounding the arena like we basically have now.

EDIT: Looks like CCA ICON have worked on the Chase and Fiserv arenas, which are personally one of my fav arenas
 
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