Calgary Regional Rail Transit

[darwink]

Not willing to blindly trust the 'report' that the Province pushed out of which the report itself identifies, that other than, will a track and station barely fit on a road, basically no other impacts were assessed (pg48).
That's not being risk averse, thats accurately assessing the risks that have been presented to you clearly by them being omitted in the first place.

Those risks are not show stoppers, it is basically saying: this is not a design, which is true. The city can task its existing office and contractors to build this. I am reasonably confident the city already has a more advanced version of this report, that was prepared as an option alongside the Lynnwood option.

The city is convinced that it is right, that the entire process that got the city here (short tunnel, short line) was right. That they didn't make spectacular errors at key points. That their evaluation of stakeholder complaints as worth a billion dollars or more was the right call.

That the project shrank every time they tried to accommodate more demands and try to engineer around geology should have been a warning sign blaring that they weren't doing a good job. Instead they stayed path dependent and insisted they were right.

Today, the city can accept the province's report as an opportunity to go yes and (improv style, keep the sketch going), and receive sign off from the feds and province. Or they can say no and book a billion dollar charge on their books.

It is inevitable that the city accepts the report as a general guideline to build elevated. The city should, and get on with it as rapidly as possible.

The city should also take the massive gift from the province: the province rejected the Jim Gray group plan entirely.

 

[trtcttc]

Those risks are not show stoppers, it is basically saying: this is not a design, which is true. The city can task its existing office and contractors to build this. I am reasonably confident the city already has a more advanced version of this report, that was prepared as an option alongside the Lynnwood option.

The city is convinced that it is right, that the entire process that got the city here (short tunnel, short line) was right. That they didn't make spectacular errors at key points. That their evaluation of stakeholder complaints as worth a billion dollars or more was the right call.

That the project shrank every time they tried to accommodate more demands and try to engineer around geology should have been a warning sign blaring that they weren't doing a good job. Instead they stayed path dependent and insisted they were right.

Today, the city can accept the province's report as an opportunity to go yes and (improv style, keep the sketch going), and receive sign off from the feds and province. Or they can say no and book a billion dollar charge on their books.

It is inevitable that the city accepts the report as a general guideline to build elevated. The city should, and get on with it as rapidly as possible.

The city should also take the massive gift from the province: the province rejected the Jim Gray group plan entirely.

If the city has been so inept at building this project, I don't see why the province doesn't take this over? They want the Green Line for Grand Central, the EDM-CGY HSR, the YYC-CGY-Banff Rail. These seem more like regional responsibilities. If the city is beholden to city stakeholders, maybe the province isn't? How about the city foot their portion of the bill, and the province can get this built on their watch? Doug Ford took over the subway from the city because he wanted to have input on the technology, the route, etc. This province can do the same.

 

[darwink]

If the city has been so inept at building this project, I don't see why the province doesn't take this over? They want the Green Line for Grand Central, the EDM-CGY HSR, the YYC-CGY-Banff Rail. These seem more like regional responsibilities. If the city is beholden to city stakeholders, maybe the province isn't? How about the city foot their portion of the bill, and the province can get this built on their watch? Doug Ford took over the subway from the city because he wanted to have input on the technology, the route, etc. This province can do the same.

There isn't enough time to do this, and the city already has contractors in place.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

This province can do the same.

They do not want anything to do with Green Line... Outside of meddling in the Green Line (studying and asking for alternate studies on it), being a big reason why it is the joke it is; the Province wants to be as far away from the Green Line as they can. Even if completed the long memory on the Green Line is still tied to the City. Even if the city adopts the study and we get a Green Line it will be two municipal elections from now when the Mayor takes the first ride on the Green Line. That Mayor should be able to be its saviour, while the Province will stick Nenshi and this council with all its issues.

The Province wants to take the win on Regional and High-Speed Rail.

 

[CBBarnett]

I don't think this is materially different than what we have seen before, but does appear to be a fresh preferred option published in a recent council report about the airport transit connection. Link here with a bit more detail:
https://pub-calgary.escribemeetings...English&Agenda=Agenda&Item=18&Tab=attachments

Here's what they are saying about this preferred option. So not much news, but perhaps a foreshadowing for more details this year:

 

[zagox]

I don't think this is materially different than what we have seen before, but does appear to be a fresh preferred option published in a recent council report about the airport transit connection. Link here with a bit more detail:
https://pub-calgary.escribemeetings...English&Agenda=Agenda&Item=18&Tab=attachments

Here's what they are saying about this preferred option. So not much news, but perhaps a foreshadowing for more details this year:

View attachment 623936
View attachment 623938

View attachment 623935

I read this to say that they are retaining the alignment from the 2020 study, but are recommending going with track and structures that can be shared with heavy rail to downtown/Banff. I assume that means much heavier rolling stock as well.

If there really is progress on the Banff-downtown-airport rail, great, but if it turns out to be a provincial mirage, it would be unfortunate to burden the blue line to airport connection with more expensive track and rolling stock, slower acceleration, and longer headways.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

The one thing it is light on, and maybe this will be addressed in the completed report (or perhaps it was out of scope because this is a airport rail study) but why not have a turn from the NW into downtown? You could turn 96th Ave into a northern transit Hub and offer direct connections from there to downtown? I say downtown because although you could stop at some Grand Central, it should be on the table to use the old VIA rail stop behind the Calgary Tower.

heavy rail to downtown/Banff. I assume that means much heavier rolling stock as well.

This is too bad as I would've preferred the Green and Blue Line connections be light/automated rail. But I do see the argument for there being a single seat from the airport to downtown/Banff, or even a single seat from the NW transit hub to downtown/Banff.

 

[darwink]

The one thing it is light on, and maybe this will be addressed in the completed report (or perhaps it was out of scope because this is a airport rail study) but why not have a turn from the NW into downtown? You could turn 96th Ave into a northern transit Hub and offer direct connections from there to downtown? I say downtown because although you could stop at some Grand Central, it should be on the table to use the old VIA rail stop behind the Calgary Tower.

This is too bad as I would've preferred the Green and Blue Line connections be light/automated rail. But I do see the argument for there being a single seat from the airport to downtown/Banff, or even a single seat from the NW transit hub to downtown/Banff.

In Japan is it pretty common to have very different systems to share the same track. Heck, early on in REM development, the thought was the the tunnel under Mont Royal would be shared.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

In Japan is it pretty common to have very different systems to share the same track. Heck, early on in REM development, the thought was the the tunnel under Mont Royal would be shared.

True, Liricon's rolling stock isn't exactly heavy. From their August 2024 release:

 

[InfrastructureEnthusiast]

View attachment 623935

I do like this setup, its simple and effective.
It'd be interesting to see what the options that didn't make the cut look like..

I'd like it more though if the HSR line had a stop at the terminal instead of Nose Creek.

Seeing how this looks with the commuter line to Airdrie would be good too.

Maybe it's too much scope creep for an initial rail project, but I really like the idea of having the north and south commuter legs built at the same time as the Banff line.

 

[YYCguy]

Seeing how this looks with the commuter line to Airdrie would be good too.

Maybe it's too much scope creep for an initial rail project, but I really like the idea of having the north and south commuter legs built at the same time as the Banff line.

I live within easy walking distance of the Airdrie stop that Airdrie City Council has imagined, and I work out of YYC, so I hope this is built before I retire! I hate driving on the QE2/Deerfoot in the winter so this would relieve a lot of stress for me!

 

[InfrastructureEnthusiast]

I live within easy walking distance of the Airdrie stop that Airdrie City Council has imagined, and I work out of YYC, so I hope this is built before I retire! I hate driving on the QE2/Deerfoot in the winter so this would relieve a lot of stress for me!

Yeah it just seems like such an easy win to not do. Compared to the costs of improving the line to Banff and building Grand Central, the cost of the track from the airport to Airdrie and two stations seems like peanuts, probably less than 10% of the project cost.

The south leg would cost more, but I think it'd be worth it to have a full system at launch rather than just one line.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

The fact that the full report on the airport rail and the larger alberta rail thing are being released so close together likely means both happen at the same time. The airport rail study's limited scope makes sense when you know there's a larger study coming in less than 6 months,

 

[CalgaryTiger]

Delays, Trudeau resignation threaten Toronto-Quebec City high-frequency rail project | Globalnews.ca

Canadians hoping plans for high-frequency rail between Toronto and Quebec City would move forward this year will instead see further delays.

globalnews.ca

Nothing to do with our regional rail but in this article it mentioned the bids that at this stage are not bidding on the same thing...

"Pierre Barrieau, who teaches transportation and urban planning at the University of Montreal, says the competing proposals lay out complex plans that demand thorough analysis and that months-long delays for the megaproject should come as no surprise.

“The three bids are not bidding on the same thing, basically. One might have said, ‘I’m building a tunnel here,’ another one is doing a bypass there,” Barrieau said. “One might be saying 250 kilometres per hour, another one might be saying 375.”

The three consortia selected to submit proposals are: Cadence, which includes AtkinsRéalis (formerly SNC-Lavalin) and Air Canada; Intercity Rail Developers, which includes Montreal billionaire André Desmarais’s DF Canada Infrastructure Group Inc.; and QConnexiON Rail Partners, which includes WSP Canada.

The request for proposals asked each of the three groups for a pair of bids: one for a conventional rail network where trains would top out at 200 km/h (the current limit is about 160 km/h) and one for a high-speed rail corridor.

“It’s really hard to compare a Hyundai Tucson with a Porsche,” said Barrieau, adding these kinds of delays, while unwelcome, are par for the course with this scale of project."

I suspect this would be the next step after the rail study, no? Or do we think they're going to do this all in-house? I cannot see that happening but going in-house would speed up the timeline versus waiting for competing bids to come back with their own proposals.

 

[darwink]

Nothing to do with our regional rail but in this article it mentioned the bids that at this stage are not bidding on the same thing...

They are bidding on fulfilling the minimal requirements for the least money while making the most money for the government (or lowest subsidy).