Green Line LRT | ?m | ?s | Calgary Transit

[Golfing guy]

Are you sure about Chicago? There are sections in the loop that are elevated. Anyhow it doesn't matter, other aforementioned cities like NY, Paris, etc.. are underground in the core and elevated outside of the core if that's what you meant.

I agree with you on the principal that we shouldn't take a decision because an incompetent partner changes their mind at the last minute, but I don't know that elevated is the wrong decision all things are considered, and maybe was the right one from the beginning? Aside from cost, there are plusses to having it elevated. I'm also not against having it underground, all things equal cost-wise that's the path I would pick. In the end this is just a system to transport people.

I’m not all against elevated either. Though we don’t know the costs of elevated vs tunnelled either. The province just shoving it down our throats isn’t making a good case for it. Not just dollars to build it. The potential lawsuits from property owners on lost value of their properties. All the plus 15’s that have to be moved or re-engineered. So many “what ifs” thrown at the city.

The SkyTrain is elevated in Metrotown, Brentwood, New Westminster, Surrey, Richmond, etc... doesn't kill development or property values there. Is it the perfect solution? No. But we need good transit more than we need perfection.

completely different example. The Expo line was built way before any high rises or other residential buildings in those locations. TOD’s came after the elevated line was built. Running an elevated line down the heart of downtown Calgary will alter what city vibrancy we have.

 

[Dārayavauš]

I’m not all against elevated either. Though we don’t know the costs of elevated vs tunnelled either. The province just shoving it down our throats isn’t making a good case for it. Not just dollars to build it. The potential lawsuits from property owners on lost value of their properties. All the plus 15’s that have to be moved or re-engineered. So many “what ifs” thrown at the city.

completely different example. The Expo line was built way before any high rises or other residential buildings in those locations. TOD’s came after the elevated line was built. Running an elevated line down the heart of downtown Calgary will alter what city vibrancy we have.

Well Berlin, Copenhagen etc put elevated tracks in existing urban areas and it absolutely doesn’t detract from vibrancy. Not sure what makes Calgary special that they’re above elevated.

It’s either elevated or nothing.

Increased development due to Transit going there can also increase property values, so it’s not all negative.

It’s really that elevated rail is visible, people don’t like change and change which is visible is easily protested against.

 

[lemongrab]

I’m not all against elevated either. Though we don’t know the costs of elevated vs tunnelled either. The province just shoving it down our throats isn’t making a good case for it. Not just dollars to build it. The potential lawsuits from property owners on lost value of their properties. All the plus 15’s that have to be moved or re-engineered. So many “what ifs” thrown at the city.

completely different example. The Expo line was built way before any high rises or other residential buildings in those locations. TOD’s came after the elevated line was built. Running an elevated line down the heart of downtown Calgary will alter what city vibrancy we have.

10th and 2nd already suck today. We're not ruining anything:

Am I cherry picking the bad? Yes. But it's already a dark+narrow concrete corridor nobody would choose to walk down again if they discover the more vibrant streets nearby

(had to pick an old date for when the roads weren't covered in construction junk)

Some decent views here...which just means the heavy rail tracks are pretty exposed:

The catch fencing here evokes memories of spectacular scenery in Kicking Horse Pass. If I squint, it's almost like I'm there!

 

[haltcatchfire]

Im just on board with getting it build and not on the street. Pretty basic.

Elevated is perfectly fine, other cities manage to do it and it’s great. Calgary isn’t special, no need to reinvent the wheel or choose subway if it’s far too expensive. The most track for your dollar is what I support.

Right, elevated obviously doesn't impact you directly physically, so you're taking the approach that any compromises don't matter to anyone.

 

[lemongrab]

Right, elevated obviously doesn't impact you directly physically, so you're taking the approach that any compromises don't matter to anyone.

This might be a bit of a stretch, but the alternative to building more mass transit will impact everyone directly physically. More gridlock everywhere.

Like I say, a stretch...but we could probably zero in on a few corridors in particular (say 9 ave through Inglewood?) that will suffer greatly in an alternate timeline of no greenline in any form. Those properties would struggle to make silly lawsuits, but they'd still feel significant consequences

 

[lemongrab]

One thing is for sure, if the full NC/SE line is going to cost 20bil+, the damn thing better be automated! It's just way too much to spend and not get a high frequency capable system ...

Realistically, this should be the 'build it right' goal for the north, where the efficiencies will actually pay off.

It might also be a bit of a 2 stoned birds situation, considering the challenges of land acquisition to achieve the presumptive at-grade option.

The initial capital is probably a bit insane, but the number of busses we run on that corridor all day every day is also pretty insane. It would be interesting to see a more thorough analysis on that. And even if we have to go the route that involves a ton of expropriation to achieve the necessary grade-separatoin, would the property value lift of delivering such efficient transit (even if its an alleged eyesore) be worth it? Not to mention the benefits you'd see on 4th St NW and Edm Trail

 

[darwink]

The initial capital is probably a bit insane, but the number of busses we run on that corridor all day every day is also pretty insane. It would be interesting to see a more thorough analysis on that. And even if we have to go the route that involves a ton of expropriation to achieve the necessary grade-separatoin, would the property value lift of delivering such efficient transit (even if its an alleged eyesore) be worth it? Not to mention the benefits you'd see on 4th St NW and Edm Trail

The savings from not having to do utility relocation would more than pay for the expropriation (a few years back counted how many properties — it isn’t a big number — and guessed at the cost —if you avoid churches the cost is predictable) and elevation.

Council views land purchases and expropriation as massively bad and expensive processes to be avoided without cost benefit analysis. They should be less shy about it.

 

[haltcatchfire]

This might be a bit of a stretch, but the alternative to building more mass transit will impact everyone directly physically. More gridlock everywhere.

Like I say, a stretch...but we could probably zero in on a few corridors in particular (say 9 ave through Inglewood?) that will suffer greatly in an alternate timeline of no greenline in any form. Those properties would struggle to make silly lawsuits, but they'd still feel significant consequences

I'm not debating the pros and cons of each scenario, nor providing a personal preference, but responding to the snarky comments given to people fairly analyzing some of the rational concerns just as they would provide equally for underground and at grade. No scenario is perfect but it's not offside to evaluate them.

 

[ahuch]

My thoughts as well. I'd love underground too, but the current costs are getting really had to justify.

The renders don't look too bad, if built I think the elevated guideway will disappear into the collective subconscious quick enough, especially if the guideway as artwork idea gets some traction.

One thing is for sure, if the full NC/SE line is going to cost 20bil+, the damn thing better be automated! It's just way too much to spend and not get a high frequency capable system ...

This is actually the most insane thing to me, building a train into the 2030s that's going to have drivers when autonomous driving is getting so close (or exists in limited capacities in US cities, anyways)

 

[Surrealplaces]

I updated the poll with a new question - Elevated or Underground. I don't believe there's a correct answer only a decision based on weighing out different factors, and it'll vary from person to person depending on the importance of the factors.

 

[Golfing guy]

If the city and province do come to a compromise on a route through downtown. What’s to say the Feds don’t change their position. With an election looming in 2025. A conservative majority or coalition government could change their contribution or even give input on how they want to go through downtown. Could be an election issue

 

[badc0ffee]

A conservative majority or coalition government could change their contribution or even give input on how they want to go through downtown. Could be an election issue

Keeping in mind that the funding that started this whole trainwreck (pun intended) was from Harper in 2015, and also, Poilievre is from Calgary.

 

[Joborule]

If the city and province do come to a compromise on a route through downtown. What’s to say the Feds don’t change their position. With an election looming in 2025. A conservative majority or coalition government could change their contribution or even give input on how they want to go through downtown. Could be an election issue

Think that's wishful thinking. Why would the feds care about how the train goes through downtown? If the city and province agree to elevated, why would the feds shake up things? Especially if most of the seats are spoken for in Calgary already with whatever happens.

Plus with next round of fed funding coming, seems like feds would be wise to not set a precedent here, and just advise the city to use the current funding before it expires, a d prepare for the next round of funding.

 

[Golfing guy]

Think that's wishful thinking. Why would the feds care about how the train goes through downtown? If the city and province agree to elevated, why would the feds shake up things? Especially if most of the seats are spoken for in Calgary already with whatever happens.

Plus with next round of fed funding coming, seems like feds would be wise to not set a precedent here, and just advise the city to use the current funding before it expires, a d prepare for the next round of funding.

Why would the province care. Appeasing your supporters. Getting votes. There was no reasonable reason for province to pull funding and cause all this mess besides the above??

 

[Cowtown]

Right, elevated obviously doesn't impact you directly physically, so you're taking the approach that any compromises don't matter to anyone.

It’ll affect some people, but the affect will be minor no? There are 3 residential sites that would be affected - Upten, Lewis Lofts and the soon to be Lincoln.
The rest are offices and I don’t care about them so much. Those sterile offices have done more to kill vibrancy than an elevated line will.

As for the residents of those three residential buildings, it should only affect people on the third or fourth floor who are on the side facing the train. All three of those buildings are already close to the CPKC tracks. I honestly don’t think this is going to have a big effect on anyone.