The tunnel couldn't get to the start line in 9 years. I didn't say it's the worst option, but it is not clearly the best. It's fair to argue that you still think it's the best, but I would hope by this point everyone can agree it is not overwhelmingly the best. IF it could be built at a reasonable cost, then maybe the pros outweigh the cons, but even then I'm not convinced it's overwhelming. From a user experience standpoint, arriving multiple levels below grade is not necessarily awesome. What are the OPEX and tradeoffs of maintaining a deep station in perpetuity? You'll probably tell me that's how big city's do it. Which is cool, but how many of those city's have ~7.5 blocks worth of surface parking lots within 500 meters of their most central station?
Firstly, I wouldnt presume to tell you anything. You stated that the current alignement had proven to be false. Proven implies that there is factual evidence available to demonstrate such. I simply asked what was available, showing this. I would argue the Province pulling their funding, wasnt a demonstration of this, as they had reviewed the project multiple times, including this latest amendedment and determined if was acceptable, until they woke up one morning and decided it wasnt. If the Province releases documentation or communications with the City, showing they were questioning the reduction/tunnel section prior to the Minister pulling funding (after saying it could be taken to the bank ) I will gladly alter my viewpoint.
The arguement for OPEX and user experience arriving underground, can be applied directly to an elevated option also.
I frankly dont care how other cities do things. I live in and my concerns are with Calgary and again, I wouldnt presume to tell you anything.
Im unsure as to your point about the surface lots. Which central station are you referring to?
I don't rue 7th Ave at-grade at all. We see the alternative up in Stinkville. We've achieved 2.5x the ridership by building length instead of 'doing it right the first time'. If red line at grade is so bad, then maybe it would have been better to prioritize that tunnel? It's still not impossible. Or should the lowest ridership line with the lowest projected through-riders be the one to have the most capacity for frequency and quickest travel speed through the core?
I don't rue 7th Ave either, it as you have stated, allowed Calgary to be one of if not the example of how to build LRT to maximize ridership and coverage. My point was that even with the successes we have seen, the ultimate build out is for a tunnel for the Red Line but that wont likely be completed in anyones lifetime here. We had the chance to do it right at the onset with the Green Line, instead of having to come back in x years and try again. Be it tunnel or elevated, my concern is running the line without impacting the Red and Blue operations ( Id hate to see 3 lines shut down becuase there was an incident where the lines cross ). The fact that the review is still looking at an 'At Grade' option for the CBD is personally concerning.
I just want the best overall system. That doesn't necessarily mean building the next project to the absolute highest standards at the expense of other priorities.
Same here. I dont want something that in 10-20 years we are going to be looking at it, wondering how to fix it. It doesnt have to be the highest standards but it also cant be sub-standard. If an elevated line that addresses the concerns of the DT Business associations and doesnt just skirt the outer edges of DT, then lets go for it but I personally think its a 2nd choice design, behind a tunnel.
So we trade a small bird in the hand for some magic beans. Are we anywhere close to exhausting our existing TOD options? EC area was revitalizing just fine with or without the green line.
Your right, there are plently of TOD options still existing ( Looking at you Westbrook.....) and its a shame that these individuals are losing their homes but there was a review and developement process that came up with the alignment. I think this one we will just agree to disagree on.
End of the day, this just needs to get built and politicians just need to stop pissing in each others cornflakes trying to score points. Their elected to serve and represent their constituents and should be able to act like adults and discuss issues in private instead of the media circus the Green Line has become.
And just think, we have all this to look forward to again with the Northern line in whatever shape it eventually takes lol
