BMO Centre Expansion | 25m | 5s | CMLC

I agree about the lack of retail. Should have had a couple CRU’s on the corner by the train station and a few more in the main plaza and along Stampede Trail adjacent to the new arena. Not sure how I feel about building condos on top of the convention centre, I can live without that.
 
The Familia said:
I agree about the lack of retail. Should have had a couple CRU’s on the corner by the train station and a few more in the main plaza and along Stampede Trail adjacent to the new arena. Not sure how I feel about building condos on top of the convention centre, I can live without that.
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The CRUs in the existing convention centre on Stephen Ave have been hell to rent out. So yeah, just as with condo/rental apartment projects, not everywhere is right for retail.
 
MissingMiddle said:
The whole building is built on a 45 degree angle, the progress pics we're seeing are the West corner of the South-West wall. It's being built as planned, a solid wall with trees and landscaping in front:

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I mean it's not exactly Stephen Ave, but it's exactly what they said they'd do, you can even see the offset angles of the wall near the corner:
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Thank you for providing these images, I don't think I've seen them before. You are correct, it definitely appears like they are building things to match the site plan you included. Do you have a link where we could find more renderings like these?

I guess my question is why the renderings appear to show windows behind the trees along that very same stretch? It seems odd renders would be made to show windows if there wasn't an intention at some point to include them? Or am I just seeing things in the renderings that aren't actually there ?

Screenshot_20220117-221224_Chrome.jpg
 
I would ask, when that rendering is from, if your so concerned about a bait and switch.

Either it is a good thing we get drawings at all before the permit stage, or not. We can't have it both ways - wanting preliminary drawings and wanting the project held to them.
 
darwink said:
I would ask, when that rendering is from, if your so concerned about a bait and switch.

Either it is a good thing we get drawings at all before the permit stage, or not. We can't have it both ways - wanting preliminary drawings and wanting the project held to them.
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The image I posted is from the CMLC website and matches the images that are being displayed along the construction fencing on site. I would have assumed the CMLC would be using the most up to date and accurate renderings for their website and fence banners since they are in charge of this project but perhaps that's not an accurate assumption. Even if they are preliminary renders it still means they dialed back the glass at some point in the approvals process which is where my disappointment comes from. Apologies I didn't provide the link to it in the original post.

www.calgarymlc.ca

17 Avenue SE Extension & Victoria Park/Stampede Station Rebuild

Connecting communities and opening up Stampede Park 365 days a year
www.calgarymlc.ca www.calgarymlc.ca
 
MichaelS said:
Then the overall project shouldn't be pitched/sold to the public as such.
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This reminded me - the convention centre proponents at the time, we heard lots of reasonable sounding things about why we are extending 17th Avenue into the grounds - improving connectivity, making 17th Avenue retail "viable" because no retail street is ever supposed to dead-end, finally integrated the stampede grounds back into the neighbourhood, extend the retail environment etc. I think I was on board originally.

But to achieve all these nice sounding things to justify extending 17th Avenue, the trade-off wasn't free. The at-grade LRT crossing will slow down trains to accommodate it, and we haven't even factored in the inevitable vehicle v. train collisions or train v. pedestrian collisions yet. Traffic and crowd control at events will be a zoo, further delaying the transit.

If the retail doesn't really extend into the grounds, this effort to improve access - access to what exactly?

A (more) giant convention centre and some more parking lots? New arena or not, there isn't actually much net-new activity that work is trying to connect to. Beyond these facilities, it's not like there's any short or even long-term potential for more development east of MacLeod.

I am all for the station rebuild and modernization, but I am getting more skeptical the 17th Ave extension is worth it.
 
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MichaelS said:
Then the overall project shouldn't be pitched/sold to the public as such.
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Can't say I remember it being pitched as such, in and of itself. A handful of retail CRUs facing 4th (I bet one is a year round stampede shop), and a Cafe on the Plaza.
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Maybe it's fake windows? Not uncommon to put spandrel glass on a big blank wall to break it up a bit. Display windows are a possibility as well, showcase a particular theme when a big conference or event is in town.
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I think that is possible, except it would be behind trees. I imagine it is more fake windows because otherwise the fall would be even more boring.

for reference, here is the first set of elevations we got compared to a map, the photo of the wall, and an interior plan. The space looks to have an overhang, which may mean a space gets glazed in. In any case, it is behind trees, and would have been glazing in front of a wall which is in front of a hallway which will be sparsely used, not in front of any sort of activated space.
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darwink said:
Can't say I remember it being pitched as such, in and of itself. A handful of retail CRUs facing 4th (I bet one is a year round stampede shop), and a Cafe on the Plaza.
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I guess I don't see those handful of CRU spaces on 4th Street, coupled with a 350 blank wall/dead space, as being the big connector of the Beltline and 17th Ave into the Stampede Grounds this was hyped to be.
 
MichaelS said:
I guess I don't see those handful of CRU spaces on 4th Street, coupled with a 350 blank wall/dead space, as being the big connector of the Beltline and 17th Ave into the Stampede Grounds this was hyped to be.
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I've outlined where I think there could be some additional retail around this project... In the southwest corner, they could do some "old west" town continuation/refresh of Weadickville? (For lack of a better example I'll say something like Gasoline alley outside Heritage Park). I know the Rotary House (cabin) is staying put. I'm not sure how much longer the Big 4 will be there but I don't think the stampede has plans to get rid of it anytime soon, otherwise they would've done it already in conjunction with the massive demo of the BMO and Corral.

I think the city and stampede would love to have a hotel in the northwest corner of the site, could be some retail or activation there?

And the final spot is of course "Stampede Trail" along 4th. When I look at this image I do see there being more potential for what will be (at some point) the site of the demolished Saddledome. I think it's just meant to be parking... but would that really be the best use of this space considering it's across 4th from the entry plaza?

I've also seen TOD discussed here, IMO that's what all the parking lots west of Macleod are for.
 
CalgaryTiger said:
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I've outlined where I think there could be some additional retail around this project... In the southwest corner, they could do some "old west" town continuation/refresh of Weadickville? (For lack of a better example I'll say something like Gasoline alley outside Heritage Park). I know the Rotary House (cabin) is staying put. I'm not sure how much longer the Big 4 will be there but I don't think the stampede has plans to get rid of it anytime soon, otherwise they would've done it already in conjunction with the massive demo of the BMO and Corral.

I think the city and stampede would love to have a hotel in the northwest corner of the site, could be some retail or activation there?

And the final spot is of course "Stampede Trail" along 4th. When I look at this image I do see there being more potential for what will be (at some point) the site of the demolished Saddledome. I think it's just meant to be parking... but would that really be the best use of this space considering it's across 4th from the entry plaza?

I've also seen TOD discussed here, IMO that's what all the parking lots west of Macleod are for.
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At the end of the day, it's a Transit Oriented development and it's a very poor one. A good TOD develops around a station and incorporates it whenever possible. Having highrises across a massive roadway isn't gonna do much to bring vibrancy in-around the station itself. In addition, I agree with MichaelS, the blank wall doesn't create the best pedestrian experience for a so-called "big connector." This is a city-planned project, so it's most definitely disappointing to see how poorly they designed the station and 17th ave sides of this project. In fact, as an example, the city should have aimed to set a standard for an excellent TOD.
 
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