17th and 4th | 164m | 46s | Vesta | Zeidler

General Rating of the Project

  • Great

    Votes: 16 29.6%

  • Very Good

    Votes: 26 48.1%

  • Good

    Votes: 10 18.5%

  • So So

    Votes: 2 3.7%

  • Not Very Good

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Terrible

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    54
adamyyc said:
I've always thought that the epicentre of 17th should be further east, or at least that there should be a second epicentre.

To me, the blocks between 17th Ave & 13th Ave, and 4th St & 1st St are ripe for redevelopment because of the incredible central location. Here you are within walking distance of 17th Ave (W), the Mission/4th St (S/SW), the Elbow River/Lindsay Park/MNP (S/SE), the Entertainment District/Stampede Grounds (E), Central Memorial Park (N), 10th Ave (N), E end of Downtown (arguably the better part of Downtown) (N), and then East Village/Central Library/Bow River a bit further (NE).

I think that 17 Ave between 4th St & 1 St should be the first area to be redeveloped (which this development would contribute to). Right now, there basically isn't anything of interest on 17th Ave east of 4th St, save and except the corner with Model Milk/Pigeon Hole. It's an area with so much potential given it could connect interesting areas (1st St, 17th Ave & 4th St), and has some unique character (e.g., St. Mary's Cathedral & Rouleauville Square).
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What it's going to take is a massive amount of local residents living east of 4th street traversing 17th in the west direction as pedestrians for their daily lives. The rest of 17th and 4th St south of 17th are already covering everyone's needs, so you otherwise need a real destination to draw people off of that existing route. If anyone comes into the area from other parts, they either already have a destination or they're going to follow the already engrained areas. When I head to the area without a destination in mind I often head east from 9th St, turn south on 4th street, and reverse once hitting 25/26th avenue. There's nothing that could convince me to keep going east on 17th (yet), and that's a difficult thing to break.
 
haltcatchfire said:
What it's going to take is a massive amount of local residents living east of 4th street traversing 17th in the west direction as pedestrians for their daily lives. The rest of 17th and 4th St south of 17th are already covering everyone's needs, so you otherwise need a real destination to draw people off of that existing route. If anyone comes into the area from other parts, they either already have a destination or they're going to follow the already engrained areas. When I head to the area without a destination in mind I often head east from 9th St, turn south on 4th street, and reverse once hitting 25/26th avenue. There's nothing that could convince me to keep going east on 17th (yet), and that's a difficult thing to break.
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2 things...with the caveat that the area from 1st to MacLeod/LRT will take the longest to redevelop due to some, "Social", circumstances in the area and an atmosphere-sucking streetscape of a casino

1) 1st street is already a good destination north of 17th....so that traffic exists, it just dies at 16th presently
2) Finding a way to open up 17th to the river/old train bridge at lindsay park, would go a LONG way in helping that 4th to 1st region of 17th.
 
Tothewest said:
2 things...with the caveat that the area from 1st to MacLeod/LRT will take the longest to redevelop due to some, "Social", circumstances in the area and an atmosphere-sucking streetscape of a casino

1) 1st street is already a good destination north of 17th....so that traffic exists, it just dies at 16th presently
2) Finding a way to open up 17th to the river/old train bridge at lindsay park, would go a LONG way in helping that 4th to 1st region of 17th.
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Anthem doing something with their Erlton piece would help. It is also ok to have the area south of 17th be a little sleepy.
 
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It would be a lovely idea to include a juice bar/cafe to the MNP Centre expansion, with entry from the park pathway. The gym and park itself are more than busy enough to accommodate one, especially since the nearest are 6 blocks away (Purple Perk and Starbucks on fourth and first).
 
UrbanWarrior said:
It would be a lovely idea to include a juice bar/cafe to the MNP Centre expansion, with entry from the park pathway. The gym and park itself are more than busy enough to accommodate one, especially since the nearest are 6 blocks away (Purple Perk and Starbucks on fourth and first).
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MNP has a good earth and jugo juice
 
Oh, what?! I had no idea. Well, that’s too bad then 😂
 
Tothewest said:
The real issue is St Marys School, Church, and then St Monica school....essentially blocks any ability to activate Lindsay Park
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I’d love to see the city make some of the streets around st Mary’s into pedestrian streets. A decent portion of 18th ave and that little strip of 1st st next to the Alberta Ballet building would be perfect. It would really help the activation for Lindsay park. That, along with sovereign going in, and maybe some small updates to rouleauville square would make such a huge difference
 
Tothewest said:
The real issue is St Marys School, Church, and then St Monica school....essentially blocks any ability to activate Lindsay Park
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Im not a religious person but i dont think this is a problem, i think its a part of a community. let the market develop around it.
 
thejazzurbanist said:
I’d love to see the city make some of the streets around st Mary’s into pedestrian streets. A decent portion of 18th ave and that little strip of 1st st next to the Alberta Ballet building would be perfect. It would really help the activation for Lindsay park. That, along with sovereign going in, and maybe some small updates to rouleauville square would make such a huge difference
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This is an example of a small but meaningful way to improve Calgary's park access.

Calgary has one of the best parks and pathway systems in the country, but often struggles with the connections once it leaves "parks" lands and integrates into the street network. There is often no transition or a poor one. North access to Lindsay Park is a prime example - literally a gem of a inner city park, one of the best we got with some of the best river access. However the streets around it show literally no indication that there's this amazing asset and key bicycle network system connection right there.

My idea would be to allow the park to overflow it's boundaries - create park-like streets or mini parks that web the greenspace closer to where people live. Maybe or maybe not car-free, but certainly park-like features bleeding into the neighbourhood. Takes the "park" experience from being back of house behind random houses and a cathedral to a mere block within this development.

Montreal did a great one of these connecting the Mont Royal Park to the city centre through a consistent and often quite green, street network upgrade - the effect is a really natural path from highly urban places to the nearby park space. A bit more info here: link

Here's a terrible drawing of what would work - just strengthen the "obvious" path to access the park on foot from the areas of high density through nicer sidewalks, more trees, better lighting, clear signage etc:
1725385070057.png
 
1875 said:
Im not a religious person but i dont think this is a problem, i think its a part of a community. let the market develop around it.
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Well that's the discussion, the development in that area has struggled, and i'd contend a proper river connection and activation would help it. The alberta ballet building is beautiful, the high school though is not, very ugly, literally backs INTO the river, and eats up almost 2 blocks of riverfront. yuck
 
Still no real info on the towers? the plaza looks good, how much is looming above it and how does that look? that's what I want to see...
 
Oh are they? Damn, I thought they showed more detail of the sidewalks and stuff.
 
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