11th Street Underpass | ?m | ?s | City of Calgary

[Joborule]

Aside from eliminating vehicle access, it would also prevent the possibility of a transit route using 11 Street from 5/6 ave down to 17th ave and vice versa in the future. There's close to a kilometer gap between 14th st and 8 st for N/S roads that cross the tracks.

I'm not sure why the active mode is being considered as the preferred option. Who's asking for it? I don't get the impression people want less vehicle traffic around there. If anything, people just want to have an uninterrupted crossing of the railway tracks whether they're driving, on a bike, or walking. Seems like the order for the recommended options are backwards. I'm all for creative thinking, but this park concept isn't the right fit for this location. If they want to activate the space along the railway tracks, there's better plots in the downtown area that they could pick.

 

[lemongrab]

I assumed it was something like that. They can still allow parking for the areas away from the intersections though, just leave an empty spot for 20-30' at the intersections until they can build the pedestrian bump-outs. Flashing pedestrian crossings are also a good idea, they generally work quite well.

I think they may want to switch to bus only lanes at some point, so they don't want to do permanent bump-outs. And deciding the long term plans for Crowchild before doing anything permanent.

 

[Benji_North]

Have you been under any of the existing railway tunnels? It’s where homeless people sleep. It’s a terrible place for a park.

 

[Golfing guy]

11th is a very important street for connectivity between north and south of the rail lines.

Remove 11th and it’s an eleven block gap (14th-1st) to get on to 9th Avenue from Beltline.

11th is also an import link to 5th avenue from Scarboro/Sunalta/Beltline. Because 14th St has such limited connections to 9th/6th/5th/Memorial, take away 11th St. and you force all of that traffic further through Beltline to 8th and 4th.

These suggestions are how you end up with Toronto style gridlock which isn’t pleasant for residents of the neighbourhood.

No one is going to play at a sunken playground between rail lines and a five lane 9th Avenue anyways.

Now imagine the Staples lot gets redeveloped to WVT level residences. By car, you can only get home from the west on Bow Trail.

5th st has access to 9th ave. I’m not a fan of eliminating vehicles from 11th street

 

[haltcatchfire]

It's not a direct connection to 9th Ave but you can take 8th St via 8th Ave.

That being said, I do agree with your points.

How is it not a connection to 9th Avenue?

5th st has access to 9th ave. I’m not a fan of eliminating vehicles from 11th street

5th is one way.

 

[trtcttc]

I assumed it was something like that. They can still allow parking for the areas away from the intersections though, just leave an empty spot for 20-30' at the intersections until they can build the pedestrian bump-outs. Flashing pedestrian crossings are also a good idea, they generally work quite well.

That's been brought up with the city and it's because it's a one lane so if you allow parking, there will be back ups when people try to parallel park and what not. There's plenty of non-zoned parking on Westmount and the cross streets that are never that full.

 

[Woosh]

 

[trtcttc]

February 2025 update on this... your heads might explode and the recommendation. In a good way.

11 Street S.W. Underpass Functional Planning Study

The City of Calgary is undertaking a functional planning study for 11 Street S.W. / CP Rail project area.

engage.calgary.ca

Project Update - February 2025​

FUNCTIONAL PLANNING STUDY IS CLOSED
Using the input we received from the public and key interest holders, along with additional technical analysis and policy directions these are recommendations for the study area:

• Recommended plan – active travel modes underpass as a destination
• Recommended Alternate plan – all travel modes underpass with enhance public realm

View attachment 636784

All these studies for underpasses that we've built so many in downtown, I just don't get the point. If we just settled on 1 design, something like 5th St SW and add in a painted bike lane like 4th St SE, how much cheaper and faster can we build these? We've studied an underpass for... Half a Decade. Even if I disagreed with an element of the design, I'd rather we get to building things instead of studying forever only to still have to make the same tradeoffs as the beginning.

 

[Woosh]

All these studies for underpasses that we've built so many in downtown, I just don't get the point. If we just settled on 1 design, something like 5th St SW and add in a painted bike lane like 4th St SE, how much cheaper and faster can we build these? We've studied an underpass for... Half a Decade. Even if I disagreed with an element of the design, I'd rather we get to building things instead of studying forever only to still have to make the same tradeoffs as the beginning.

Because we've created an engagement process that provides every possible stakeholder the authority to critique, appeal, and sue if their precise demands aren't met.

Especially with anything Urban in nature, when something is proposed, there will always be an army of Suburbanites who will pick it apart and delay. You scan scroll up through this thread for examples.

This makes it nearly impossible to provide City staff the authority to make these decisions quickly. Councillors are terrified of being accused of not listening to their constituents, so they would rather never build anything, than build something that made their donors unhappy.

 

[Joborule]

Because we've created an engagement process that provides every possible stakeholder the authority to critique, appeal, and sue if their precise demands aren't met.

Especially with anything Urban in nature, when something is proposed, there will always be an army of Suburbanites who will pick it apart and delay. You scan scroll up through this thread for examples.

This makes it nearly impossible to provide City staff the authority to make these decisions quickly. Councillors are terrified of being accused of not listening to their constituents, so they would rather never build anything, than build something that made their donors unhappy.

I guess I would be one of those that you think is a suburbanite that can't comprehend why a trenched park should be built instead of improved mobility for all modes of mobility, but I actually live near by the 11 Street underpass. I don't drive through the crossing often, but I drive by the nearby intersection(s) multiple times a week. As a local resident, I think it would ultimately be a negative tradeoff, and again, a weird spot to do it.

If they were gonna do something like this, a spot I think would be suitable would be building a underground passing over by 19 Street SW crossing where the Bow River pathway and 12 Ave cycle track link up. That presently is a underutilized space where there would be nothing lost by turning the crossing over there into a park, and it would integrate well with Pumphouse Park, and the future development of residences from West Village development.

 

[haltcatchfire]

View attachment 637124

Why is the guy on the right happy, his bus is stuck in gridlock.

 

[haltcatchfire]

Because we've created an engagement process that provides every possible stakeholder the authority to critique, appeal, and sue if their precise demands aren't met.

Especially with anything Urban in nature, when something is proposed, there will always be an army of Suburbanites who will pick it apart and delay. You scan scroll up through this thread for examples.

This makes it nearly impossible to provide City staff the authority to make these decisions quickly. Councillors are terrified of being accused of not listening to their constituents, so they would rather never build anything, than build something that made their donors unhappy.

Was there major engagement on the 4th St SE underpass and has there been any yet on the 5th St SE one?

The rehab of the existing ones is a different situation all together.

 

[MichaelS]

The 5th Street SE one has been cancelled, it is now going to be at 6th Street SE.

 

[FCC1982]

11th is a very important street for connectivity between north and south of the rail lines.

Remove 11th and it’s an eleven block gap (14th-1st) to get on to 9th Avenue from Beltline.

11th is also an import link to 5th avenue from Scarboro/Sunalta/Beltline. Because 14th St has such limited connections to 9th/6th/5th/Memorial, take away 11th St. and you force all of that traffic further through Beltline to 8th and 4th.

These suggestions are how you end up with Toronto style gridlock which isn’t pleasant for residents of the neighbourhood.

No one is going to play at a sunken playground between rail lines and a five lane 9th Avenue anyways.

Now imagine the Staples lot gets redeveloped to WVT level residences. By car, you can only get home from the west on Bow Trail.

I agree in full - ridiculous recommended plan.

 

[trtcttc]

Was there major engagement on the 4th St SE underpass and has there been any yet on the 5th St SE one?

The rehab of the existing ones is a different situation all together.

And what determines what needs what level of engagement? Seems like we're perfectly fine with zero engagement on some pretty major items: Cowboys Park, Olympic Plaza(!) but we have a half decade study on an underpass? I'm not familiar with city rules but is it simply that engagement is coming from salaries, and they'll have engagements until they receive construction funding? If this thing was funded say in 2021, they would've wrapped up the engagement and chose a design?