The Hat Elbow River | 177.99m | 56s | Cidex Group | NORR

They make cool skyline photos, but the older I get the less impressed I am by tall skyscrapers. Actually the older I get the more convinced I am that smaller/midsize buildings are where it's at. Go to any great city in the world, and it's more like than not that it's the denser neighborhoods with 2-5 story buildings that are the most vibrant and interesting. Human-scale buildings for human-scale people!

To me those Toronto renderings look just as dystopian and inhumane as any cookie-cutter suburb. Rack 'em and stack 'em. Corbusier would be proud.
 
They make cool skyline photos, but the older I get the less impressed I am by tall skyscrapers. Actually the older I get the more convinced I am that smaller/midsize buildings are where it's at. Go to any great city in the world, and it's more like than not that it's the denser neighborhoods with 2-5 story buildings that are the most vibrant and interesting. Human-scale buildings for human-scale people!

To me those Toronto renderings look just as dystopian and inhumane as any cookie-cutter suburb. Rack 'em and stack 'em. Corbusier would be proud.
True. When I've been to places like Barcelona or Rome, whose tallest buildings probably don't even make our top 20, I don't tend to think "man, this city really needs to build some skyscrapers".

I agree with needing more midrise stuff, the problem in Calgary is that (for the most part) the design quality of those midrises hasn't been great.
 
They make cool skyline photos, but the older I get the less impressed I am by tall skyscrapers. Actually the older I get the more convinced I am that smaller/midsize buildings are where it's at. Go to any great city in the world, and it's more like than not that it's the denser neighborhoods with 2-5 story buildings that are the most vibrant and interesting. Human-scale buildings for human-scale people!

To me those Toronto renderings look just as dystopian and inhumane as any cookie-cutter suburb. Rack 'em and stack 'em. Corbusier would be proud.
I used to be all about towers too when I was younger. The part that I missed when focusing on height alone and declaring more height = good thing, is the "why". Why do we have such tall buildings in the first place? Why is this a good thing?

Height is most usually on outcome of demand for space and the cost to build it - it's obviously expensive to build giant buildings, but in some cases demand for space is great enough to make it worth it.

What raises eyebrows is when you end up in situations like Toronto, when you have 60 storey forests of towers next to single family homes across the street. If demand was so great to support 80 storeys in a location, surely it would be sufficient to support wide swathes of the nearby neighbourhood being townhomes, smaller scale apartments and mid-rises. But that didn't happen, and suggests a broken mechanism in this supply/demand/cost process - the much discussed "missing middle" of housing and development.

Put another way, excessive height is sometimes a symptom of the process gone awry and leading to inefficient outcomes, not an inalienable good thing. In aggregate, this reduces choice to only two extremes - incredibly high density or unsustainably low density. This leads to all sorts of the problems Canadian cities face today - affordability, congestion, over and under supply of services, schools and amenities.

This is why I am very optimistic about Calgary's medium term future. While Toronto and Vancouver ended up in this tall or short paradigm, Calgary has had more favourable incremental infill policies when it mattered, specifically at about that 1 million - 2 million growth phase. This has prevented many neighbourhoods from locking down and restricting growth completely, while allowing for much of the rejuvenation of the inner city we have experienced in the past 20 years.

We have a long way to go and lots more work to do to keep it up - urban street and sidewalk design is a notable gap - but the momentum is there to develop more stuff at a more sustainable scale in many locations, reducing the pressure to have this total all-or-nothing, tall or short paradigm. Townhomes, row houses, apartment infills are more important than the pure height of the towers.

That said, towers are still important and will still occur. We need to ensure they are allowed and encouraged in more places. As we get bigger and more dynamic as a city, it's not just the immediate city centre that will have situations where they make sense. Perhaps we don't want or need them to be 80 storeys though. If we play our card right we can have a far denser and more livable city without that scale.
 
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So is this thing getting built? and just waiting for other projects to be done? As if it is suppose to be done 2030 I assume it is still on track to finish lol
 
Cidex is one of the few actually building projects. This would either encourage more flipping which is behind Toronto/Vancouver's affordability woes or owners would find a way around like incorporate the property and transfer shares to different shell companies.. It would do nothing on the development front. There's too many intensification opportunities to build all at once.. Half a million more units?
 
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Height remains a feature in any local conversation from my observations. The broader international conversation has shifted to a super tall threshold and interest in lists of city tallest by number of skyscrapers have declined by the sheer number of skyscrapers built in the last 10 years. Less than 2% taller is a technicality that is exclusively on display in these lists. 2% taller is a non factor in skyline or building images.

Calgary's skyline is undeniably more impressive in every key category than Edmonton by a Herculean margin
Edmonton really suffers from a lack of focused density and has a lot of unique factors that have made its downtown the way it is today.

1) the university/whyte ave/Saskatchewan drive south side of their river has pretty significant density. Numerous buildings over 20 stories and a lot of medium density. And historically this was a separate city, so there are sort of 2 disconnected downtowns. Edmonton would likely have a much better downtown if whyte ave wasn’t so separated.

2) the downtown airport restricted a lot of development, which is why there are a lot of 8-15 story government office buildings downtown.

3) the river spreads out a lot of density as people seek edge properties. Projects 15 blocks to either side of downtown are 30 stories tall, yet so much in actual downtown is left undeveloped.

4) Edmonton is a city of small towns. Almost 500k of the 1.5mil actually live in bedroom communities like St. Albert, Sherwood park. These leave a much smaller population to build a true city downtown from

5) Oliver is incredibly large and dense and almost acts as an extension of downtown proper, yet it’s really just a residential area of really high density. Much of Oliver’s tallest density is 20 blocks away from downtown, not impacting the skyline or adding residents to the more central downtown area.

Of the tallest, say 25 buildings, 8 or 9 of them aren’t even in the primary “skyline” cluster (last photo).

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Calgary has 20% more 35 metre high rises than Edmonton and 250% more 75 metre high rises than Edmonton. Edmonton lacks height. The airport overlay still allow Manulife to be built.

Edmonton has similar stats to Ontario cities with decentralized high rise clusters all over the place and including Toronto pre post 2000 height explosion.
 
I have always liked the way Edmonton's highrises ring the river valley. Their skyline has really filled out over the past decade or so, and is quite impressive for a metro of around 1.5 million...I can't think of another city anywhere near the same size with a better skyline (other than Calgary, obviously). I'd put it on par with those of considerably larger metro areas such as Denver or Minneapolis.
 
I'm old enough to remember when only NYC, Chicago and Houston had supertalls. If anything, the boom in skyscraper construction around the world has led to skyscrapers not being such a big deal anymore. that said, Calgary's skyline is impressive, well balanced and very aesthetically pleasing especially considering our city size. Skyscraper fans in a lot of US cities in our size range (thinking of places like Columbus, KC, Indianapolis, Sacramento, Nashville etc) would be thrilled to have a skyline like ours.
I used to love supertalls and high-rises. It's what got me into these forums in the first place, but these days I couldn't care less about supertalls, especially the ones in Asia, where they all blend together into oblivion. I'm enjoying watching a couple of the Toronto ones go up The One and Pinnacle
 
Reading through the comments, a couple of them caught my eye.
The idea of having strong density, but not taller than say 10 floors like many cities in Europe sounds great. I think the problem may be that since those places were built, we have figured out how to build higher and have cars. Low density wasn't generally an option for those that were not rich when those cities got built. North American cities started the same way, but people were willing to give up the convenience of a dense neighborhood for their own yard and I don't see that changing.
 

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