Scotia Place | 36.85m | 11s | CSEC | HOK

[CalgaryTiger]

See my thinking was this; not competing or even trying to add to game day but giving people, other than the 18k plus going into the arena, a reason to go to Stampede Trail. People going to the game would go to the restaurants in the arena but so would others who are in the area for a night out, on game days and non-game days.

I think expect CSEC to get into residential development, but I thought they would at least want to have something other than arena, maybe not. Even if it is CSEC offices above ground floor restaurant and retail. For those who do want to do residential, I would think Victoria Park would be a place you would want to be. You don't have the problems of East Village and you're right next to the arena, Green Line, possible airport/regional/Banff rail, whatever Stampede Park is going to become after Populous gets done with it. Maybe the arena needs to actually be established to benefit off of that, but I'm surprised someone isn't at least starting to get the ball rolling.

 

[1875]

not to mention the convention center plus playoff runs, concerts and other uses for the arena, also the casino and three fairly large condo towers. not like its a ghost town 300 days a year.

 

[trtcttc]

But when does this happen ever. "teases" and "throwing things against a wall" cost money. I don't think any developer is unsure about what the area is going to be, or how the improved streetscape of the arena is VAST improvement from the Saddledome....it is just very much a huge construction zone which makes it difficult to plan and sell. This is no different than EV...the infrastructure had to come first

We've seen proposals at least for Stampede Station and the Autograph, and some design/renders for the lot NW of Cowboys. It's interesting there's been no proposal directly at the arena vs the lots around it. At a minimum thought we'd see a hotel development by now.

 

[trtcttc]

plus playoff runs

Going to have to wait a few years for those.

I've lived near Toronto's Union Station, which is connected to Scotiabank Arena. The area was the far south end of Downtown, with a few development in the early 2000s (similar to Stampede now) and in the 2010s more development started nearby, including CIBC Square which replaced a huge empty parking lot, and lots of condos and office developments. If you go there on a Sunday evening, it's still quiet. There's still no attraction there on non game days but just the increase in population, many more people out and about at all times.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

This area has a unique opportunity as on most decent weather days, even in the winter people will be on the river path. I was thinking of what is something that would get people there every day, whether they're going to the game or not.

Best I can do, is an extension of River Walk south along Elbow River coupled with a year-round River Hall-like activation adjacent to the plaza outside of the community arena. Could close 14th Ave east of 5A Streets and have it close to the parking structure near the dome, which I think is staying intact. The Parking structure could actually give people somewhere to park if they want to drive.

 

[trtcttc]

The destination of Scotia Place is the arena, convention centre, and the events inside. The best way to get people in the area when that isn't happening is to have residential. When people live somewhere, naturally restaurants, groceries, third spaces pop up. I think it's very difficult to create a destination for non-event days without significant residential.

 

[CBBarnett]

Going to have to wait a few years for those.

I've lived near Toronto's Union Station, which is connected to Scotiabank Arena. The area was the far south end of Downtown, with a few development in the early 2000s (similar to Stampede now) and in the 2010s more development started nearby, including CIBC Square which replaced a huge empty parking lot, and lots of condos and office developments. If you go there on a Sunday evening, it's still quiet. There's still no attraction there on non game days but just the increase in population, many more people out and about at all times.

There's always this 24/7/365 vibrancy argument that arena and event districts make. In reality, it's a tall order - there's 8760 hours in a year, even the busiest event districts struggle to fill them all with simply event-based traffic. Not to mention many/most/all(?) events are inward-focused by design, sometimes event districts get remarkably quiet when everyone is inside at the event!

The districts that really become these vibrant places they are sold to be, mostly do so by building a high density, walkable neighbourhood directly around the event facilities. At sufficient scale, the walkable mixed-use high-density area covers the rest of the vibrancy and street life quota that event centres alone struggle to provide. Like many things, the solution is to add more housing at sufficient density.

Of course, the debate (as most of these 250+ pages on the forum attest to) is really to what extent does an event district trigger the actual creation of a walkable, high density, 24/7/365 vibrant community? There's examples where it's worked before, others where it hasn't ,and lots of in-between in cities all over the place.

The other factor here is that to be a 24/7/365 vibrant successful event district, you almost always need to have a walkable high density community around it. But the opposite is not true at all - to be a vibrant high density community, you don't need an event district. This is why that since the entertainment district idea became vogue in the 1980s, the Stampede area remains an underperformer while we've seen the rise of Kensington, Beltline, Bridgeland, even places like Marda Loop during the same time period. The Beltline is on it's 3rd or 4th highrise construction boom phase for example (just usually not focused on the entertainment district side).

All the new event and exhibition facilities are certainly better designed and ultra modern, so I have hopes this time is different and the residential component will come once the dust settles a bit and it's more clear to developers the opportunity that might be possible once they seen the new scale and quality of the public spaces. Until then we'd have to make do with ongoing success of all the higher-density, vibrancy-inducing growth in our non-event areas

The destination of Scotia Place is the arena, convention centre, and the events inside. The best way to get people in the area when that isn't happening is to have residential. When people live somewhere, naturally restaurants, groceries, third spaces pop up. I think it's very difficult to create a destination for non-event days without significant residential.

What @trtcttc said, essentially.

 

[Roaring Flames]

I think there will be plenty of people walking around if the green line station and Grand Central station get built along with some condo developments north of 12th Ave. Add in an extension to the Riverwalk (Maybe turn 7th street into a pedestrian street), a new bridge crossing the river, and bike lanes further east and you have an area that (hopefully) no longer feels scary after dark.

Still the real issue with the area will always be getting people to want to visit Stampede Park year-round. Apart from events at BMO there really isn't anything to do in the Park.

A few things can be done to help. Like for example: renovating Nutrien Western Event Centre so it can be used as a community rink, The Stamps moving to the Grandstand, building permenant midway attractions, or opening retail like a farmers market. The Stampede board could also consider holding a winter festival of some kind in the park.

 

[Mountain Man]

As someone who has worked in the area, I feel like a few more restaurants / bars for the lunch crowd would be well received by the local work force, so long as it's not overpriced garbage like Vagabond was lol.