General Construction Updates

[CalgaryTiger]

If they phase it one block at a time, that will be better than doing the entire area simultaneously. I think I remember reading on here that it was the Marda Loop CA that pushed for the entire project to happen at once?

How does a one block at a time project like this work when you're doing underground utilities? In Marda Loop's case removing power poles, I don't know enough about the logistics but it seems very inefficient.

IMO the issue with Marda Loop was the constantly changing detours and doing two avenues at once.

 

[Mountain Man]

They are doing one block at a time on Stephen Ave, so keep an eye on that to see I guess. Good question though, going piece meal on the utility work would likely take longer than doing it all at once as you would end up doing things multiple times.

 

[trtcttc]

How does a one block at a time project like this work when you're doing underground utilities? In Marda Loop's case removing power poles, I don't know enough about the logistics but it seems very inefficient.

IMO the issue with Marda Loop was the constantly changing detours and doing two avenues at once.

And people think it's just streetscape but the most time consuming part is all the underground stuff.

 

[CBBarnett]

How does a one block at a time project like this work when you're doing underground utilities? In Marda Loop's case removing power poles, I don't know enough about the logistics but it seems very inefficient.

IMO the issue with Marda Loop was the constantly changing detours and doing two avenues at once.

It's underappreciated how much work and scheduling effort is required when access needs to be maintained throughout a complicated, multi-infrastructure, multi-street project.

It's also underappreciated that even under the best case scenario, access rarely can be maintained 100% of the time, particularly all modes of travel.

Probably makes sense to do a low-impact one after all the public blowback from Marda Loop.

I think what Marda Loop demonstrates it is sometimes really hard to separate the politics from the project. While I understand the business frustrations of construction, some of the loudest voices didn't help themselves by stoking a much more widespread and out-loud perspective that Marda Loop is "impossible" to get too, discouraging even more visits. The construction isn't what did this - Marda Loop has long been "impossible to get too" and "under construction" according to the average discussion about the area, yet thrived anyway - it was the complaining and constant news articles about it that probably had the biggest impact.

That's not to say there's no improvements that can be made to construction processes or that impacts weren't real, but I think the complexity of this kind and scale of streetscape project will always lead to frustrations, regardless of how it's phased.

Maybe as a test, someone should do a blue-sky project post-mortem to see what you'd need to change in the engagement, procurement and execution processes of the Marda Loop streets projects to complete it in a single construction season instead of 3 or 4 years. My guess is you could probably do it in one year with several times the budget, no public engagement, and way less effort put on maintaining access to businesses. The complaining businesses might find those trade-offs harder to swallow than what actually happened though.

In the end, Marda Loop will (somewhat bizarrely) have some of the best walking infrastructure and sidewalks in the whole city which will permanently benefit the area's attractiveness, access and retail environment. The upgrades are already being well used by the unique-to-Calgary wine bar / nightlife district that's popped up on 34th Ave, plus an infinite % increase in strollers and young families walking around with children on the wide pathways, that before were completely excluded from using the area due to substandard everything related to walking around and dangerous traffic behaviour everywhere.

 

[adamyyc]

I hope that the City completes the second phase sooner than later. Hopefully they can get the funding to complete 33 & 34 Aves to 14 St. Those areas should be less impactful to the businesses in the area.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

It's underappreciated how much work and scheduling effort is required when access needs to be maintained throughout a complicated, multi-infrastructure, multi-street project.

It's also underappreciated that even under the best case scenario, access rarely can be maintained 100% of the time, particularly all modes of travel.



I think what Marda Loop demonstrates it is sometimes really hard to separate the politics from the project. While I understand the business frustrations of construction, some of the loudest voices didn't help themselves by stoking a much more widespread and out-loud perspective that Marda Loop is "impossible" to get too, discouraging even more visits. The construction isn't what did this - Marda Loop has long been "impossible to get too" and "under construction" according to the average discussion about the area, yet thrived anyway - it was the complaining and constant news articles about it that probably had the biggest impact.

That's not to say there's not improvements that can be made to construction processes process or that impacts weren't real, but I think the complexity of this kind and scale of streetscape project will always lead to frustrations, regardless of how it's phased.

Maybe as a test, someone should do a blue-sky project post-mortem to see what you'd need to change in the engagement, procurement and execution processes of the Marda Loop streets projects to complete it in a single construction season instead of 3 or 4 years. My guess is you could probably do it in one year with several times the budget, no public engagement, and way less effort put on maintaining access to businesses. The complaining businesses might find those trade-offs harder to swallow than what actually happened though.

In the end, Marda Loop will (somewhat bizarrely) have some of the best walking infrastructure and sidewalks in the whole city which will permanently benefit the area's attractiveness, access and retail environment. The upgrades are already being well used by the unique-to-Calgary wine bar / nightlife district that's popped up on 34th Ave, plus an infinite % increase in strollers and young families walking around with children on the wide pathways, that before were completely excluded from using the area due to substandard everything related to walking around and dangerous traffic behavior everywhere.

It is so true that the businesses said "pink elephant". You never say "pink elephant". The funny thing about 33rd and 34th is that it was done this way because of feedback from 17th Ave.

Even as an area resident, I never found the construction as bad as it was being made out to be. I always just walked there, if you were driving it might make you cry but the maybe don't drive? People have a hard time seeing beyond themselves and life's little difficulties.

 

[shermanator]

plus an infinite % increase in strollers and young families walking around with children on the wide pathways, that before were completely excluded from using the area due to substandard everything related to walking around and dangerous traffic behaviour everywhere.

This is nothing more than hyperbole. There were no issues walking around the neighbourhood with either a stroller or a wagon or holding your kid's hand before the project started.

 

[CBBarnett]

This is nothing more than hyperbole. There were no issues walking around the neighbourhood with either a stroller or a wagon or holding your kid's hand before the project started.

I admit "an infinite % increase" is an (obvious) rhetorical exaggeration, but I will stand by my claim that walking around with strollers, wagons, wheelchairs and toddlers is infinitely more reasonable, safe and enjoyable with wider sidewalks.

 

[shermanator]

Final top level paving in Marda Loop goes from Sept 7-24. All done at night to not disrupt business. Businesses are still complaining of course.

 

[dirtymood]

Even as an area resident, I never found the construction as bad as it was being made out to be. I always just walked there, if you were driving it might make you cry but the maybe don't drive? People have a hard time seeing beyond themselves and life's little difficulties.

I’m also in the area, and I completely agree. I have a hunch that the people complaining about how ‘impossible’ marda loop was to access during the construction don’t actually stop and visit the area too often; they probably use 33 ave as a commuter road. I think their only perspective of the neighbourhood is the traffic choke during the 5pm rush, which is there even in the absence of road closures.

 

[trtcttc]

I’m also in the area, and I completely agree. I have a hunch that the people complaining about how ‘impossible’ marda loop was to access during the construction don’t actually stop and visit the area too often; they probably use 33 ave as a commuter road. I think their only perspective of the neighbourhood is the traffic choke during the 5pm rush, which is there even in the absence of road closures.

There's a pretty big gravel lot on 33rd, not sure if it's new. When we visited on a Friday afternoon, the lot was pretty empty, but the streets were clogged with commuters.

 

[badc0ffee]

I have a hunch that the people complaining about how ‘impossible’ marda loop was to access during the construction don’t actually stop and visit the area too often; they probably use 33 ave as a commuter road.

My own experience a while back (1-2 years ago) was that the detours, road closures, disallowed turns, and one-way conversions made the area confusing to navigate by car. At one point I had to backtrack to get out.

It's been more or less back to normal when I've visited since then. But I can see how people might have decided to avoid the area if not on foot/bike.

 

[Alex_YYC]

Good timing on the conversation. I forgot to post these photos from the other day. I have to say I am very impressed with the way Marda Loop streets are looking these days.

 

[Alex_YYC]

Also, one more Marda loop site, I don’t know if this is an infill or larger, but it looks substantial. Sorry I don’t have the cross streets for where it is.

 

[Mountain Man]

I hope that the City completes the second phase sooner than later. Hopefully they can get the funding to complete 33 & 34 Aves to 14 St. Those areas should be less impactful to the businesses in the area.

The city needs to give that area a 5 year reprieve at least, people and businesses in the area are so mad that any more work will not be well received lol.

The work that has been done does look good though, once it's done the businesses in the area will be very happy.