Green Line LRT | ?m | ?s | Calgary Transit

[InfrastructureEnthusiast]

Fare tapping with CC isn't bad, but I'd think those come with fees from the card companies?
Plus having widespread CC readers like that makes a pretty inviting target for the skimmer scammers..

I found the EasyCard system in Taiwan incredibly convenient, worked on the metro system of the two biggest cities, plus the regional rail. It could even be used at some grocers and fast food places, and of course all the convenience stores where it was easy to top up your card.

Wonder how much coal they'd want in exchange for setting up a clone of the system in Alberta?

 

[darwink]

Then it comes back around to, for Calgary, is a stored value card, with its constraints, better than paper passes and tickets? I'd argue it isn't.

Which then you try to implement a cloud linked card, and it turns out that is really hard to do well.

 

[kora]

Cards are already obsolete. The way to go is a phone app. It's becoming the latest standard like on BC Transit with the UMO app.

 

[trtcttc]

Cards are already obsolete. The way to go is a phone app. It's becoming the latest standard like on BC Transit with the UMO app.

Isn't that what we have currently? Ours is based on JustRide platform, which is similar to the Umo platform from Cubic. There's functionality for a physical card too but it's more up to C Transit if they want to upgrade the readers for it.

 

[trtcttc]

Fare tapping with CC isn't bad, but I'd think those come with fees from the card companies?
Plus having widespread CC readers like that makes a pretty inviting target for the skimmer scammers..

I found the EasyCard system in Taiwan incredibly convenient, worked on the metro system of the two biggest cities, plus the regional rail. It could even be used at some grocers and fast food places, and of course all the convenience stores where it was easy to top up your card.

Wonder how much coal they'd want in exchange for setting up a clone of the system in Alberta?

These systems are very common around the world, but those usually are very large transit systems to make it worthwhile.

Then it comes back around to, for Calgary, is a stored value card, with its constraints, better than paper passes and tickets? I'd argue it isn't.

Which then you try to implement a cloud linked card, and it turns out that is really hard to do well.

The biggest issue with our implementation is automating the ticket buying part. Much prefer to scan the QR code and buy the ticket in the same transaction, then having to buy a ticket first and activating it before I can board a bus.

 

[InfrastructureEnthusiast]

Eh, I'll take the simplicity and reliability of a card over a phone app any day, and not once in my months of using EasyCard did I think it would benefit from any kind of cloud integration.

I get that this is more of a solution seeking a problem right now as both cities have their own systems that work well enough for them, but when regional/HSR comes online, I think there are definite benefits to having a unified fare system, especially for tourists and travelers.

If the rumored provincial transit agency comes to pass, I hope it's something they put on their to do list.

 

[trtcttc]

Eh, I'll take the simplicity and reliability of a card over a phone app any day, and not once in my months of using EasyCard did I think it would benefit from any kind of cloud integration.

I get that this is more of a solution seeking a problem right now as both cities have their own systems that work well enough for them, but when regional/HSR comes online, I think there are definite benefits to having a unified fare system, especially for tourists and travelers.

If the rumored provincial transit agency comes to pass, I hope it's something they put on their to do list.

You wouldn't be able to use this as a tourist, but many Taiwanese Debit/Credit cards have an EasyCard linked to it, so you can tap that. Once the balance falls to zero, it'll autoload from your debit/credit onto the EasyCard. Locally, they are looking to move to enable open payment (directly using credit debit). Stored value will probably eventually be replaced.

 

[Woosh]

We don't need to reinvent the wheel here. Vancouver and Toronto, and countless other cities globally have it figured out.

Their systems accept dedicated reloadable cards, Credit/Debit Cards and Apple/Android Pay. It's undeniably the most user friendly experience.

There's no ambiguity as to what works best. Calgary just loves to pick the cheapest and worst way of managing transit.

 

[Surrealplaces]

It would be nice to have credit card/debit card tap, but for the other things like a reloadable card or apple pay etc, it's not really a big improvement over using the app with a QR code. I'm not an expert at this, but how much more complex would it be to implement a credit/debit card tap?
I'm curious if cost or complexity is a big factor. Even a place like Tokyo, with one of the world's most advanced transit systems is still somewhat complicated. From what I can see it looks more complicated than Calgary transit's system.

 

[darwink]

but how much more complex would it be to implement a credit/debit card tap?

That would be super easy to do credit, if that was all it was: charge an amount, spit out a paper validation. Transfers with multiple taps, fare capping, harder. I am not sure if debit stores a local record that is the equivalent of 'I have at least $20 in me'.

 

[whatchyyc]

That would be super easy to do credit, if that was all it was: charge an amount, spit out a paper validation. Transfers with multiple taps, fare capping, harder. I am not sure if debit stores a local record that is the equivalent of 'I have at least $20 in me'.

So easy that the existing ctrain ticket machines have tap haha
All I know wrt credit card is that the bus readers have the hardware to support open loop payment

 

[DougB]

Fare tapping with CC isn't bad, but I'd think those come with fees from the card companies?
Plus having widespread CC readers like that makes a pretty inviting target for the skimmer scammers..

I found the EasyCard system in Taiwan incredibly convenient, worked on the metro system of the two biggest cities, plus the regional rail. It could even be used at some grocers and fast food places, and of course all the convenience stores where it was easy to top up your card.

But why? Reloading fares through a phone app can be done anywhere so don't need a convenience store network or kiosks. The gamut of stores that would accept credit cards has got to be orders of magnitude larger than those that would accept reloadable cards. Credit cards and mobile phones are ubiquitous, so it would be foolish to use any other technology.

 

[DougB]

We don't need to reinvent the wheel here. Vancouver and Toronto, and countless other cities globally have it figured out.

Their systems accept dedicated reloadable cards, Credit/Debit Cards and Apple/Android Pay. It's undeniably the most user friendly experience.

There's no ambiguity as to what works best. Calgary just loves to pick the cheapest and worst way of managing transit.

Calgary Transit picked, the cheapest, best and most future proof method for managing payments. It may not have the branding allure of cleverly named stored values cards, but it works.

 

[darwink]

I think people miss that Japan especially is/was a cash society, and didn't have the waves that Canada has had, replacing most cash uses. In absence of an Interac, there was room for a product to play 90% of Interac's role on the consumer side. I know Japan made a pro-tourism push in 2019-2020 to support more use of credit cards in the runup to the Tokyo Olympics, so whether that is still the case, I do not know.

 

[DougB]

I think people miss that Japan especially is/was a cash society, and didn't have the waves that Canada has had, replacing most cash uses. In absence of an Interac, there was room for a product to play 90% of Interac's role on the consumer side. I know Japan made a pro-tourism push in 2019-2020 to support more use of credit cards in the runup to the Tokyo Olympics, so whether that is still the case, I do not know.

The only draw back to credit cards is fees. They already have unmatchable ubiquity and fraud detection. Competition from upstart payment providers and new technologies such as block chain will push those fess down.

Interac seems to be a relic from the early 90s. Once ecommerce took off in the late 90s, almost every vendor started accepting credit cards as customers demanded it.