Calgary & Alberta Economy

[darwink]

Well hell, what are we waiting for? Hold on to that thing and let’s take care of business.

Things take time.

There is also a great, old quote from a conversation between Trudeau and Nixon (last paragraph):

Basically, we need them to decide whether they are committing random acts of governance, or whether this is a fundamental break. We will know soon enough. We will have a new Prime Minister and perhaps two, and by June we will be firmly on a new direction, whatever it is.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

Yes, by the time it is Canada Day we will know a lot more. I guess my point is, maybe nationalizing a pipeline company isn't the worst thing.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

I've had a thought...

Isn't now the time to do a lot of the public building that needs to be done? With so much uncertainty would it not benefit those that are willing step out into the breach? Although it doesn't feel like it right now, we will get through this so wouldn't it be something to say we pushed through and did the hard things?

This is why I was a bit dumbfounded by the Provincial budget, I think it would've been a power move to say guess what, we're going to run a deficit, let's run a proper one. Borrow to build, and as I mentioned in the other thread cut income taxes and implement a PST (keep it off essentials to mitigate the affect on low-income earners). You could even make an empty promise to phase out the PST when you have balanced the budget.

I'm not thinking small either, to be specific I think you go big.

Let's build a nuclear power plant, lets build some train lines; extend the Green Line to Seton, even look north, build the commuter rail network around Calgary and Edmonton, seriously put some money behind a HSR plan. Do the small things like a fieldhouse too. Heck, sit the Stampede and CSEC down and say guess what, we're funding a stadium on the Stampede Grounds that will be able to be used by both of you. Outside of infrastructure; fund Universities, incubate some talent, make trade school free if you work in Alberta for five years afterwards.

I'm not saying you throw money away as many of these things need just a little seed money but this could've been our shot to "go to the moon and do the other things".

Instead, we're in deficit, not building anything, and just waiting for better weather. We need to make the weather better.

 

[darwink]

Isn't now the time to do a lot of the public building that needs to be done?

It really depends on what you're planning.

Now is the time to build things to pivot away from our cozy market access to the USA of the past 70 years. Think projects (or twinning) the CPR through the mountains to massively increase rail capacity. Building an absolutely ludicrously large pipeline for oil to the BC coast so if the American's want a million or 2 million barrels a day less, we can still sell elsewhere, and another to Ontario to shield them (and Quebec) from being cut off while assuring a market for Alberta.

Now is the time to pivot from a defence by distance strategy for continental defence to a defence by deterrence for national defence (don't have to hold much at risk to raise the price of actions against Canada to a huge degree).

These projects will absorb a lot of resources while our incomes may drop by a lot. This is again, like COVID, not a cyclical recession. This is a secular change. Infrastructure stimulus ain't the prescription for what ails us.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

It really depends on what you're planning.

Now is the time to build things to pivot away from our cozy market access to the USA of the past 70 years. Think projects (or twinning) the CPR through the mountains to massively increase rail capacity. Building an absolutely ludicrously large pipeline for oil to the BC coast so if the American's want a million or 2 million barrels a day less, we can still sell elsewhere, and another to Ontario to shield them (and Quebec) from being cut off while assuring a market for Alberta.

Now is the time to pivot from a defence by distance strategy for continental defence to a defence by deterrence for national defence (don't have to hold much at risk to raise the price of actions against Canada to a huge degree).

These projects will absorb a lot of resources while our incomes may drop by a lot. This is again, like COVID, not a cyclical recession. This is a secular change. Infrastructure stimulus ain't the prescription for what ails us.

I get what you're saying but my issue is, these are national projects you're talking about and while necessary I feel are such a high wall to climb and bring down (Berlin Wall analogy intended). I was trying to think on a Alberta scale and target the confidence draining budget.

I also don't agree that this like COVID, at least in hindsight. That was an opportunity for structural change that was squandered, this is an opportunity to not change something but do something. In COVID, you couldn't do much.

 

[darwink]

while necessary I feel are such a high wall to climb

Overcoming our malaise of the past 70 years, while we've drawn down/ coasted on incremental additions of what was built from the late 40s to early 60s is the project imo. Canada cannot and will not survive as a nation state without starting another phase of national investments.

A big part of that is abandoning our thoughts that things cannot be done, and definetly not in a less than 5 year timeframe. Our national project of trying to optimize to have no waste and build consensus to have no conflict was an indulgence for a world that no longer exists.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

Overcoming our malaise of the past 70 years, while we've drawn down/ coasted on incremental additions of what was built from the late 40s to early 60s is the project imo. Canada cannot and will not survive as a nation state without starting another phase of national investments.

A big part of that is abandoning our thoughts that things cannot be done, and definetly not in a less than 5 year timeframe. Our national project of trying to optimize to have no waste and build consensus to have no conflict was an indulgence for a world that no longer exists.

I see what you're saying, a huge lift but one that is necessary. It is a good thing we have a federal election coming where I'm sure thing will be a central topic. What waste it would've been to have a carbon tax election.

 

[Surrealplaces]

Overcoming our malaise of the past 70 years, while we've drawn down/ coasted on incremental additions of what was built from the late 40s to early 60s is the project imo. Canada cannot and will not survive as a nation state without starting another phase of national investments.

A big part of that is abandoning our thoughts that things cannot be done, and definetly not in a less than 5 year timeframe. Our national project of trying to optimize to have no waste and build consensus to have no conflict was an indulgence for a world that no longer exists.

100% agree. Even if the the democrats get back into power in 4 years, we can't really rely on the way the US has been the past several decades, and going forward we really need to diversify our trade and promote our own economy.

 

[DougB]

Overcoming our malaise of the past 70 years, while we've drawn down/ coasted on incremental additions of what was built from the late 40s to early 60s is the project imo. Canada cannot and will not survive as a nation state without starting another phase of national investments.

A big part of that is abandoning our thoughts that things cannot be done, and definetly not in a less than 5 year timeframe. Our national project of trying to optimize to have no waste and build consensus to have no conflict was an indulgence for a world that no longer exists.

This would require devaluing certain stakeholder groups such as climate change and indigenous rights activists, the Feds and Provinces sticking to their own jurisdictions and Parliament willing to expend political capital to push back on the Courts and Quebec Sovereigntists. The Harper government was on the right track in attempting to enforce guaranteed regulatory approval timelines and didn't get anywhere. Hopefully, times have changed

 

[darwink]

This would require devaluing certain stakeholder groups such as climate change and indigenous rights activists, the Feds and Provinces sticking to their own jurisdictions and Parliament willing to expend political capital to push back on the Courts and Quebec Sovereigntists. The Harper government was on the right track in attempting to enforce guaranteed regulatory approval timelines and didn't get anywhere. Hopefully, times have changed

I think we can entirely change the frame. The past is a different country as they say. Climate action? Will certainly be worse if we end up as states 51-58. Same with Indigenous rights. Heck, even the ability of Quebec to run their own things in their own way.

The Harper government, imo, tried to do it in the wrong way. Instead of focusing on ways to improve the process, they tried to keep processes, but change the outcome. TBH, I think we are at the throw out the process point. A lot of the extended timelines resulted from trying to save money, by preventing work that went nowhere, by having sequential processes rather than simultaneous processes.

That turns out to have been an indulgence.

 

[DougB]

I think we can entirely change the frame. The past is a different country as they say. Climate action? Will certainly be worse if we end up as states 51-58. Same with Indigenous rights. Heck, even the ability of Quebec to run their own things in their own way.

The Harper government, imo, tried to do it in the wrong way. Instead of focusing on ways to improve the process, they tried to keep processes, but change the outcome. TBH, I think we are at the throw out the process point. A lot of the extended timelines resulted from trying to save money, by preventing work that went nowhere, by having sequential processes rather than simultaneous processes.

That turns out to have been an indulgence.

Guaranteed timelines would force a streamlined process

 

[CalgaryTiger]

The question stands, what gets streamlined/eliminated in the process?

 

[darwink]

Guaranteed timelines would force a streamlined process

It doesn't work out that way. Instead, when problems happen, both sides motion to stop the clock. If the government had resourced panels with huge amounts of money, maybe it could have happened, but simultaenously they were trying to cut the budgets of NRCan, EC and associated agencies. Really tried to have it all ways, the fundamental public policy error, trying to go faster for less money. The majority term of the Harper government was full of own goals from believing their own talking points.

 

[Cowtown]

Question for those in the know, how long would it take to twin the Trans Mountain Pipeline? I’m making the assumption trimming an existing route would be the quickest right?

 

[badc0ffee]

Isn't that more or less what we did with the original Trans Mountain to make TMX, and it still cost $50 billion? There were new pumping stations and a new terminal, IIRC, but still.