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Urban Development and Proposals Discussion

I haven't posted many CPC updates lately because frankly, there hasn't been anything that exciting to talk about. Just a lot of land use redesignations, mostly R-C2 to R-Cg type stuff. However, this Thursday there is a different meeting (CPC is still on, but still kind of boring) that will have a very large impact on pending greenfield development in Calgary. The Priorities and Finance Committee, recommending which new communities should get council funding for growth, and which shouldn't. Here is a link to the quick summary:
https://pub-calgary.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=56588

Item 6.1.1 of the agenda for all of the information:
https://pub-calgary.escribemeetings...4d-f16503afd6bf&Agenda=Merged&lang=English#24

Very little media coverage on this, despite the large ramifications to the land development/home building industry here in Calgary.
 
I haven't posted many CPC updates lately because frankly, there hasn't been anything that exciting to talk about. Just a lot of land use redesignations, mostly R-C2 to R-Cg type stuff. However, this Thursday there is a different meeting (CPC is still on, but still kind of boring) that will have a very large impact on pending greenfield development in Calgary. The Priorities and Finance Committee, recommending which new communities should get council funding for growth, and which shouldn't. Here is a link to the quick summary:
https://pub-calgary.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=56588

Item 6.1.1 of the agenda for all of the information:
https://pub-calgary.escribemeetings...4d-f16503afd6bf&Agenda=Merged&lang=English#24

Very little media coverage on this, despite the large ramifications to the land development/home building industry here in Calgary.
I was just watching Nenshis interview and he was suggesting them approving 8 new communities. IMO it should be 0. Even condo developers have suggested a good way to increase densification and allow more inner city development is to provide a densification subsidy and force developers to build in existing city limits by stopping Greenfield development. I think I've mentioned this before, the fact you can buy a single detached home for the same price as a condo in the inner city/downtown is not helping attract consumers to denser options. In Vancouver, many people have been squeezed out of the detached homes market and thus have adjusted to buying condos in hopes of some sort of home ownership (this is why condos are still booming compared to single homes) Calgary is already way to big for such a small population, at this rate I can't imagine how ridiculous our footprint from satellite is going to look when we hit a population of 2.5 million. IMO, they should eventually consider freezing new greenfield development for a few more years until density is around at at least 3000/sq.km. Home prices and condo prices are relatively cheap compared to other Canadian cities, now would be a good time to constrain detached homes supply and support condos/townhomes because if theres another boom, you don't want to be in a postion talking about density when cost of homes begin skyrocketing due to high demand. Calgary is so lifeless already and costing taxpayers a lot of money. Nenshi even said all this outrage over public art and such expenses is peanuts compared to the costs of supporting more sprawl through new communities. So yea, this was my little emotional rant because Im becoming a little impatient with our current progress on densification and would like to see Calgary feel at least as vibrant as Montreal/Toronto within the next 10-15 years and hopefully reaching the current vibrancy levels that are seen in Vancouver/Boston in my lifetime, that would be one of the greatest achievements for Calgary as a city imo
 
Agreed gsunnyg. I don't mind if they want to fill out the remaining area between the NE corner of Stoney Trail and the rest of the city, but as far as extending further and further outward it needs to stop.
Calgary was blessed/cursed with having very few physical obstacles, such as mountains, lakes, etc to contend with, so we could theoretically expand as we please, unlike Vancouver or Manhattan where they're very spatially constrained and have to get creative.
I'm liking the relatively constant stream of new high-rise residential buildings we're really starting to get, especially during this downturn where office towers aren't really justifiable. As long as high-rise condos keep getting filled, they should keep getting built.
 
I understand your sentiment about greenfield expansion not really allowing for more dense urban conditions that make for more liveable urban spaces that are less mixed use and compact. But take this from a guy who is in the Vancouver market, constraining land supply for detached and ground oriented housing forms for the purpose of densification has much worse affects on liveability. Having a solid supply of ground oriented homes with mixed use centres is a way better approach than what’s happening in Vancouver. Have good design guidelines and effective land use policy, and focus on curbing freeway expansion would accomplish the same goal without creating this horseshit we deal with out here. Freeway expansion historically and currently keeps Calgary from having street patterns that allow for good urbanism, not outward growth necessarily. Focus on building high quality greenfield that is interconnected and good design principles,don’t curtail growth, it will crush affordability, and that is something I miss
 
I understand your sentiment about greenfield expansion not really allowing for more dense urban conditions that make for more liveable urban spaces that are less mixed use and compact. But take this from a guy who is in the Vancouver market, constraining land supply for detached and ground oriented housing forms for the purpose of densification has much worse affects on liveability. Having a solid supply of ground oriented homes with mixed use centres is a way better approach than what’s happening in Vancouver. Have good design guidelines and effective land use policy, and focus on curbing freeway expansion would accomplish the same goal without creating this horseshit we deal with out here. Freeway expansion historically and currently keeps Calgary from having street patterns that allow for good urbanism, not outward growth necessarily. Focus on building high quality greenfield that is interconnected and good design principles,don’t curtail growth, it will crush affordability, and that is something I miss
Overall subdivision design is a big problem for Calgary and many other North American cities. Now matter how dense the city makes its new subdivisions, they're still silos that don't interconnect with neighboring communities, and a car is needed in order to go anywhere outside the neighborhood. The city is moving in the right direction, and at least seems to understand that sprawl is an issue, but the city still can't think outside the box. Instead of looking at completly new ways to do subdivisions they simply cram more density into them, which doesn't really solve anything. I would feel better about greenfield developments if they were all developed in smaller clusters along grid corridors that interconnect to other small clusters.

I see @gsunnyg's point also. At some point the city needs to be more aggressive on building density in developed areas. We all know greenfield development isn't going anywhere...a good start might be to nudge up the new development levy. Does anyone know what it's at? I thought it was 15K per new home.
 
I understand your sentiment about greenfield expansion not really allowing for more dense urban conditions that make for more liveable urban spaces that are less mixed use and compact. But take this from a guy who is in the Vancouver market, constraining land supply for detached and ground oriented housing forms for the purpose of densification has much worse affects on liveability. Having a solid supply of ground oriented homes with mixed use centres is a way better approach than what’s happening in Vancouver. Have good design guidelines and effective land use policy, and focus on curbing freeway expansion would accomplish the same goal without creating this horseshit we deal with out here. Freeway expansion historically and currently keeps Calgary from having street patterns that allow for good urbanism, not outward growth necessarily. Focus on building high quality greenfield that is interconnected and good design principles,don’t curtail growth, it will crush affordability, and that is something I miss
I completely agree with you but when it comes to greenfield development what I'm trying to say is the city could forcefully make detached homes more expensive to buy and provide developer subsidies for developers looking to build high-rises within city limits. As long as we keep providing people cheap affordable single detached homes available through ever expanding greenfield development, we're not going to be densify anytime soon. We have so much room to grow within our current limits that I don't think affordability would be an issue for anyone interested in home ownership but it would sure help change peoples taste in the type of homes if all of a sudden detached homes become more expensive. Trust me I tell you from my own experience here in the NE, I have so many families and friends that owned a home first in Pineridge, Rundle etc, then moved up to Saddleridge, Taradle, etc, and now are moving up to new communities like Sky view. It just never stops, and they keep going because these homes in new developing communities are more modern yet still relatively cheap. I see the problem first hand with people who I share a relationship with, no amount of fancy infilling or unique condo/townhome buildings is gonna make them change their taste, at the end of the day money comes first as priority when buying homes, the price range has to be reasonable for you to justify your specific taste. Now I agree Vancouver is an extreme example that comes with a whole lot of issues and I don't wanna go down that route but you sure can take the basic concept of why the condo market is doing so well over there and even in Toronto, greenfield development and single home starts can't keep up with demand leading to ridiculous prices pushing consumers out of that price range. Land is cheap in Calgary so I don't see us becoming like Vancouver's condo market with inflated prices. There are plenty of denser cities around the world that don't expand their greenfield development yet homes are still very well priced.
 
Calgary should be putting more efforts into developing the inner city corridors in neighborhoods like Tuxedo, Killarney , Capitol Hill, etc.. We are moving on that direction, but at a snail's pace. Maybe increasing the cost of new housing in greenfield areas and applying those revenues towards more inner city development would help. How could the money be used toward development in those areas is for someone smarter than me to say, but I think it would help.
 
I agree that it is moving slowly, and that limiting greenfield (or halting) will speed up the process. I'm not trying to diminish the argument, but point out that there is some progress in densifying the inner city. We've got 2 large inner city redevelopments under way in West Campus and Currie Barracks.

Smaller yet sizeable proposed/in the works:
Co-op - Brentwood, Dalhousie, 16 Ave
Shaganappi Point
Westmount Development (CBC Building)
North Hill Mall
Highland Park (likely dead)
Motel Village

What are some areas - besides piecemealing smaller individual infill lots - that would be opportune for densification?
Initial thoughts, Fire Park, Marlborough Mall (lets give East Calgary some love), 50 Ave between Elbow and MacLeod, Crossroads Market area...

I'm sure I'm missing some existing, and what are some other suggestions?
 
I don't have a strong opinion on reducing greenfield neighborhoods more than the recommendations, but I would note that many inner city neighborhoods are creeping up on the max capacity for their infrastructure. Not talking roads - it is water, storm sewer and sewer that is more important and expensive. You can only add so many houses/dwelling units until you reach a tipping point for needing more take away and surge capacity. You can only cover so much land in impermeable surfaces until you need to add more storm water management, and the cheap options have largely already been implemented to try to get areas up to the minimum required for the old build form. We will end up with more projects like the storm water storage tunnel built under\near mount royal which I can't find a convenient google for right now.
 
Im becoming a little impatient with our current progress on densification and would like to see Calgary feel at least as vibrant as Montreal/Toronto within the next 10-15 years and hopefully reaching the current vibrancy levels that are seen in Vancouver/Boston in my lifetime, that would be one of the greatest achievements for Calgary as a city imo

Are you suggesting that Vancouver is more vibrant than Toronto and Montreal? Have you been to Montreal? Relatedly, I was in Dundas Square in Toronto last month - a place that I avoided like the plague when I lived there - and I was blown away by how successful the area has become. It was 10 pm on a weeknight and the place was teeming with life. I've seen nothing like it in Canada. At the time it was built, it was a bit of a joke - Toronto's budget-version Times Square/Shibuya Crossing. But being there now reminds me of one of Calgary's major shortcomings: there's no place for young adults to just go and hang out. We have no exciting public spaces and no 24-hour entertainment economy. Serious question for those who grew up here: what do Calgarians aged 19-25 do on a Saturday night?

I understand your sentiment about greenfield expansion not really allowing for more dense urban conditions that make for more liveable urban spaces that are less mixed use and compact. But take this from a guy who is in the Vancouver market, constraining land supply for detached and ground oriented housing forms for the purpose of densification has much worse affects on liveability. Having a solid supply of ground oriented homes with mixed use centres is a way better approach than what’s happening in Vancouver. Have good design guidelines and effective land use policy, and focus on curbing freeway expansion would accomplish the same goal without creating this horseshit we deal with out here. Freeway expansion historically and currently keeps Calgary from having street patterns that allow for good urbanism, not outward growth necessarily. Focus on building high quality greenfield that is interconnected and good design principles,don’t curtail growth, it will crush affordability, and that is something I miss

I agree with this in principle. It seems like this would be a better issue to solve through better design practices as opposed to limiting supply. But I do have two concerns. First, despite the fact that the proper design practices are well known, we seem unable to actually implement these practices in greenfield development (not just in Calgary, but pretty much everywhere in North America). Brownfield developments that are close to established urban areas seem much more successful in accomplishing good design practices than greenfield on the edges of the city. In part it's because new developments have to take their cue from what is around them.

Urban sprawl itself causes a lot of problems that cannot easily be solved through good design principles. Even if you have suburbs that are vibrant and walkable, they are still destroying rural areas. That could have implications for our water (e.g. groundwater depletion, flood management), for the rural economy, or even for the livability that comes from Calgary's close link with its rural surroundings (we can get "out of town" in 10-15 minutes, whereas it takes 2-3 hours to get out of the sprawl in Toronto).
 
An underlying issue here is that, pretty much since the 1940s, governments in North America have seen it as their primary mission to make a very specific suburban lifestyle as affordable as possible for the maximum amount of people. That means cheap land, cheap mortgages, cheap cars, cheap gas, cheap energy, and cheap consumer products - at the expense of everything else. Pretty much every level of government has implemented every possible policy to allow/force people into this lifestyle. It has also been a consensus that united all of the major political parties in Canada and the US. It is only in the last 10-20 years that there has been an emerging political movement that has challenged this consensus. I suspect this shift is one of the (many) contributing factors to the political polarization we see in both countries. There's an emerging left/urban versus right/rural split that has more to do with lifestyle and identity than economics, ideology, or region. It's increasingly the Prius versus the Pickup, not labour versus capital or the West versus the East.
 
Serious question for those who grew up here: what do Calgarians aged 19-25 do on a Saturday night?

Born and raised in Calgary. To be honest with you I was usually out of the city on the weekends hiking, skiing and camping. I have a camper van and it's super easy to jet out every Friday :p

I'd rather much rather be here:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.2784693,-115.7492409,3a,75y,223.21h,94.19t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipNvELSl8ocdBmZShU-WVmw3ZMdIRuriafTbo9Me!2e10!3e11!6shttps://lh5.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1QipNvELSl8ocdBmZShU-WVmw3ZMdIRuriafTbo9Me=w203-h100-k-no-pi-2.9338646-ya322.5-ro0-fo100!7i7070!8i3535

than here:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6561...4!1sPz0JbgNdlNS0MxIScMlQGA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Guess what I'm doing for the long weekend!?

Everyone has a different lifestyle, doesn't make them right, wrong, moral or immoral. Some people like the culture of the inner cities, some people like the quiet burbs. Some people like living in a hot, sticky city of 7 million with over-inflated housing values with a fantastic hockey team. It's all good either way ;)
 
[QUOTE="Silence&Motion, post: 135 "But being there now reminds me of one of Calgary's major shortcomings: there's no place for young adults to just go and hang out. We have no exciting public spaces and no 24-hour entertainment economy. Serious question for those who grew up here: what do Calgarians aged 19-25 do on a Saturday night?

Closest we have would be Olympic Square and there are major changes planned in the square itself. However further development around it is now impossible.

North - a church & office building separated by the LRT
East - City Hall
West - Telus Convention Centre
South - Arts Common (actually a good anchor for active engagement)

Maybe Eau Claire redux, if done right, could be that space.
 

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