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Urban Development and Proposals Discussion

kora said:
They have an active 2015 DP and a DSSP submitted in December
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DSSP submitted in December is a sign of them looking to get conditions removed and the DP released. Is it possible this was done just to keep the DP active? When is it set to expire?

For the more developer/money minded people on here, would it make sense to build this tower just for the new hotel portion alone, with the sunk cost of the empty office space?
 
MichaelS said:
DSSP submitted in December is a sign of them looking to get conditions removed and the DP released. Is it possible this was done just to keep the DP active? When is it set to expire?
For the more developer/money minded people on here, would it make sense to build this tower just for the new hotel portion alone, with the sunk cost of the empty office space?
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maestro said:
The vacancy rate is too high to even consider office. High end residential isn't hot either. The site will be redevelop. It could be 3 or 5 or 10 years from now. There are many reasons why the restaurant would close down without this being a sign of pending construction. The rumours over the years have this one built several times over. I'm going to sit back and wait for something more concrete.
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When I looked at the DP it was office on the bottom 20 floors and hotel on the top 10. I was told at the time the DP came out that CF was interested in building the office portion despite the high vacancy rate in order to build the hotel portion (top 10 floors of the tower). At that time the plan was to build the tower while the market rebounded, and have it finished by the time the market was in better shape. Whether that is still the plan is anyone's guess, but it's nice to see there is still some kind of action on it.
 
New office construction is definitely risky, but there is potential for them to have it all absorbed as new office space is still desireable. The biggest losers in all of this will be the older towers that are currently empty, they would need to invest a lot of money just to be competitive, and they still won't be as good as a new tower.
 
Does any one know what the office vacancy rate stands at right now? The last numbers I saw were the CBRE ones for the end of Q3.
 
It's too bad they didn't build this first when it was proposed. How long ago was that? A decade? They probably would have done well selling the condo portion due to the access to the hotel amenities. Still might be a better route than office...Concord did sell enough at a premium to get going.
 
I recall they couldn't secure a developer wanting to build the condos back then. They won't find one now. Office is their core business. It's just a waiting game which they can afford.
 
Mountain Man said:
New office construction is definitely risky, but there is potential for them to have it all absorbed as new office space is still desireable. The biggest losers in all of this will be the older towers that are currently empty, they would need to invest a lot of money just to be competitive, and they still won't be as good as a new tower.
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New office space would be pretty crazy at this time, unless they can find an anchor tenant, which is not out of the realm of possibilities. Not likely, but not impossible. 72% of space is occupied and those companies are constantly renewing or looking for new space.

Most likely scenario is what Maestro said...they'll simply wait.
 
No. Tenants are in complete control of the negotiations at 28% vacancy. Space is being marketed for at cost right now. Who is going to build new space at those terms?
 
Class A is leasing at $15 to $18 net and still dropping. The office market is in really bad shape. It's not the end of the world.
 
maestro said:
Class A is leasing at $15 to $18 net and still dropping. The office market is in really bad shape. It's not the end of the world.
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It must vary because our Class B space is leasing out for $17.00 per square foot and we are getting lots of interest.
 
Of course it varies. Must be a great location and great building to be getting lots of interest. Some form of taxes, insurance, maintenance is probably included.
 
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