Urban Development and Proposals Discussion

[Surrealplaces]

As a highrise fan, Im a bit dissapointed to see Calgary lagging behind cities like Ottawa, London and Hamilton who have smaller populations.

SFHs, semi detached and townhomes are very expensive in those cities, and they don’t build many of those, leaving mostly apartment units. I don’t know the ratio of high-rise concrete apartments compared to low rise wood frame apartments but they definitely have a much higher ratio of apartment units than we do, and it probably influences the amount high rises.

I’m a high-rise building fan also, but TBH I’d prefer to see more low rise builds and row homes, etc. than high-rise towers. Most of those high rises towers built in London, Ottawa, etc are boring suburban high rises that aren’t really adding to the urban fabric.

What I found most interesting about those numbers, is the amount of high-rises being built in places like Atlanta, Nashville, Dallas, etc.

 

[FCC1982]

I get the sense it is like water building up behind a dam - once the conditions are right it will burst in Calgary (at least I hope so)

 

[Golfing guy]

View attachment 583789
Interesting map of the number of highrises going up across NA.

As a highrise fan, Im a bit dissapointed to see Calgary lagging behind cities like Ottawa, London and Hamilton who have smaller populations, but at the same time its nice to know we're building more than big cities like LA or San Fran.

Has anyone really got to the bottom as to why highrise starts have drastically slowed down in Calgary, even with the high rental demand? Higher interest rates and building costs still have other cities building away towers.

Interesting if all multi family construction numbers were included. Calgary definitely would be up there then. Per/capita would probably be at the top. Our suburban builds are incredible

 

[maestro]

Highrise starts have cratered in Toronto * to the benefit of Hamilton. London pumps out a few high rises every year for as long as I can remember. That's all I know about London. Ottawa's boom appears to be expanding in 2024. Ottawa's largest employer is the federal government and the federal government is ballooning. That might have something to do with their resilience

My feelings are that quality continues to deteriorate as developers try to produce some semblance of affordability that comparing high rise construction counts is just not big enough anymore. It's also possible to deliver a 300 unit, 6 storey mid rise in under a year. (not that it happens) It's not possible with a 300 unit, 30 storey high rise.

*The urbantoronto.ca crane count has dropped from 360 at the start of the year to 310 now.

 

[darwink]

I get the sense it is like water building up behind a dam - once the conditions are right it will burst in Calgary (at least I hope so)

The thing is, good modern planning it shouldn’t explode like the Ontario cities.

It is similar to complaining about why Anderson Station isn’t Metrotown. Metrotown is a sign of failure.

There will continue to be a healthy mix.

The ground oriented multiplex has a going to create a really neat urban form, which will provide the density necessary for organic main streets with retail based on 4(or more)-1s Almost like reestablishing the way cities were built 100 years ago.

 

[Beltline_B]

Highrise starts have cratered in Toronto * to the benefit of Hamilton. London pumps out a few high rises every year for as long as I can remember. That's all I know about London. Ottawa's boom appears to be expanding in 2024. Ottawa's largest employer is the federal government and the federal government is ballooning. That might have something to do with their resilience

My feelings are that quality continues to deteriorate as developers try to produce some semblance of affordability that comparing high rise construction counts is just not big enough anymore. It's also possible to deliver a 300 unit, 6 storey mid rise in under a year. (not that it happens) It's not possible with a 300 unit, 30 storey high rise.

*The urbantoronto.ca crane count has dropped from 360 at the start of the year to 310 now.

Ottawa's not really booming, at least in comparison to Calgary. It has more high rise towers u/c, but far less housing starts overall than Calgary. Why Ottawa has more highrises than Calgary, I don't know, but maybe like SP said, it's to do with the cost of other types of housing.

Housing starts for 2023.

City	Single Family Home	Semi Detached	Row Housing	Apartment	Total	......	......	......	......	............
Toronto	4721	328	4860	37519	47428
Vancouver	2832	914	1922	27576	33244
Calgary	5875	1674	2996	9034	19579
Montreal	1021	208	342	13664	15235
Edmonton	5032	948	2069	5135	13184
Ottawa/Gatineau	1858	304	1727	8104	11993
Winnipeg	1425	366	468	3195	5454

and Q1 2024

City	SFH	semi	row	apartment	total
Toronto	870	84	1000	10194	12148
Vancouver	380	188	399	6660	7627
Calgary	1479	466	710	2730	5385
Edmonton	1046	292	487	1662	3487
Montreal	184	54	75	2502	2815
Ott/Gat	268	40	242	1145	1695
Halifax	141	8	23	1540	1712
Quebec	83	74	10	1254	1421
Winnipeg	313	68	102	430	913

I haven't totaled Q2 for 2024, but Ottawa looks even slower than in Q1.

The Federal government has been expanding, but the new hires aren't centrally located in Ottawa anymore.

 

[Surrealplaces]

Since it came up I discussion, here are the numbers for Q2 2024 I put an asterisk beside Ottawa's percentage, as it appears to be an aberration. For Q1 2024, and all of 2023, apartments made up 68% of Ottawa/Gatineau's housing starts, putting it more in line with Lon/Kit/Ham.

City	SFH	semi	row	apartment	total	apartment % of total
Toronto	919	72	1088	8302	10381	80%
Vancouver	677	268	443	5263	6651	79%
Montreal	334	74	164	5986	6558	91%
Calgary	1864	614	771	2544	5793	44%
Edmonton	1912	314	815	1920	4961	38%
Quebec	188	112	21	1846	2167	85%
Halifax	232	70	385	1124	1811	62%
Ott/Gat	448	41	536	755	1780	42% *
Winnipeg	421	104	96	958	1579	60%

For kicks I gathered some for Hamilton, Kitchener, and London.
2024 Q1 & Q2 and apartments percentage of total housing starts.

City	SFH	semi	row	apartment	total	apartment % of total
London	264	40	212	1205	1721	70%
Kitchener/Waterloo	214	10	333	1084	1641	65%
Winnipeg	421	104	96	958	1579	61%

 

[Chinese_T]

JaymanBUILT has proposed a new suburb south of Seton and Rangeview on the Ricardo Ranch lands which I find EXTREMELY interesting.

The outline plan is going to the CPC on Thursday. Here are the Unit Breakdowns and Zoning Outline Plan:

Low Density Detached (R-G)	886
Semi-Detached & Towns (RG, R-Gm)	1489
Multi-Residential (M-G, M1, M2, MH2, MH3)	2106
Mixed-Use (MU-1)	1079

The zoning is already quite good, with most of the detached having laneway garages (No front driveways) and a good chunk of mixed-use in the centre, all on a grid street layout.

Now here's where it gets interesting...

Jayman is going full European-style New Urbanist with this. I found a video information session from a few months back with some very interesting slides and renderings.

The entire community will be designed in a European Chateauesque style with a 60m central clocktower in the neighbourhood centre.

Whatever you think of the faux historical look, you have to admit, this is certainly raising the bar for new suburbs going forward.

 

[outoftheice]

Looks unique! It still really bothers me Calgary hasn't increased the setbacks from the river required for development. There's an argument to be made for flood protection but really it comes down to a narrow strip of green next to the rivers doesn't do justice to how much of an asset they are to our city and how valuable a continuous park space along their banks is for Calgarians.

 

[maestro]

Ottawa's not really booming, at least in comparison to Calgary. It has more high rise towers u/c, but far less housing starts overall than Calgary. Why Ottawa has more highrises than Calgary, I don't know, but maybe like SP said, it's to do with the cost of other types of housing.

Housing starts for 2023.

City	Single Family Home	Semi Detached	Row Housing	Apartment	Total	......	......	......	......	............
Toronto	4721	328	4860	37519	47428
Vancouver	2832	914	1922	27576	33244
Calgary	5875	1674	2996	9034	19579
Montreal	1021	208	342	13664	15235
Edmonton	5032	948	2069	5135	13184
Ottawa/Gatineau	1858	304	1727	8104	11993
Winnipeg	1425	366	468	3195	5454

and Q1 2024

City	SFH	semi	row	apartment	total
Toronto	870	84	1000	10194	12148
Vancouver	380	188	399	6660	7627
Calgary	1479	466	710	2730	5385
Edmonton	1046	292	487	1662	3487
Montreal	184	54	75	2502	2815
Ott/Gat	268	40	242	1145	1695
Halifax	141	8	23	1540	1712
Quebec	83	74	10	1254	1421
Winnipeg	313	68	102	430	913

I haven't totaled Q2 for 2024, but Ottawa looks even slower than in Q1.

The Federal government has been expanding, but the new hires aren't centrally located in Ottawa anymore.

Yeah, I'm making an assumption that the high rise boom in Ottawa reflects more housing starts in Ottawa than in previous years. I would also surmise Calgary has been outpacing Ottawa in housing starts for decades. It's like saying Calgary isn't booming because it only has a fraction of the starts in Toronto. The only comparable signifying boom is Ottawa compared to Ottawa.

The Feds are not that spread out. Under Trudeau, they have become a lot less national.

 

[Albertasaurus]

Thanks for showing that Nostalgia plan Chinese_T. Looks like a huge step up from other recent suburban development. Really liking the Town Centre. Between Westman Village, their new Beverly Mary Resort and this, Jayman is putting Brookfield's Seton developments to shame with some really cool developments.

 

[badc0ffee]

Grand Oaks Mixed Use, 1903 Grand Oaks Dr SW. DMAP

• New: Multi-Residential Development, Retail and Consumer Service (1 building);
• 3-storeys (11 metres) in height; and
• a mixed use building (1 Building).

View attachment 569981

This DP was approved.

 

[IanBray]

So I went down here yesterday and it turns out that Certus is developing all three of these older buildings into boutique office, restaurants and cafes. The corner will be called 'Culinary Corner'. Great re-use and addition to 14th St / Marda Loop / Mount Royal.View attachment 572074View attachment 572075

An update on this Certus multi-building commercial redevelopment project located across the street from Certus’ office.

 

[ByeByeBaby]

The yellow area has 40% of the housing; the pink area has 60% of the housing, plus 100% of the stores and services.

 

[Mountain Man]

As long as they don't build a power centre nearby, this should be successful. Seton has a big power centre on the west side of the community and that seems to have killed the vision for an actual high street.