darwink
Senior Member
Compared to near 0% success of standard probation for petty crimes it is a great success. A measurable improvement.
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Urban Development and Proposals Discussion
- Thread starter Surrealplaces
- Start date
adamyyc
Active Member
Marda Loop Main Streets Public Information Session Update
Pros:
Pros:
- Traffic Lights at 33/22 & 34/20
- Multi Use Pathways
- Curb Extensions
- Festival Street
- Turning restricted at certain intersections and reestablished turning at other intersections (combined with introduction of new traffic lights) should improve traffic flow and decrease backups of traffic (this will be a double edged sword as it will encourage car travel)
- Construction may force new travel habits in people (maybe people will avoid driving through the neighbourhood after construction is complete)
- Burial of overhead Enmax line on north side of 34
- Potential introduction of 5G (City working with Telus - inclusion in light poles)
- Improved tree canopy (seems like the selection of proposed tree species was thoughtful)
- Construction is only funded for BIA area; Comments from City staff was that the east end (residential area) won’t get funding until the area is rezoned (which will only happen piecemeal and seems to ignore that a significant portion of 33 east of 19 has already been redeveloped or has developments proposed) and that the expectation is that developers will implement much of the Main Streets design in the east end; Reading between the lines, I get the impression that funding will not be available to fully implement the Main Street Master Plan until the next 4-year budget cycle at the earliest (which means 2027 construction at the earliest), and at worst, it never gets implemented
- Multi-use pathway will end at 18; Connection to 14 won’t occur until the next phase of construction (see above)
- Burial of overhead Enmax lines on 34 likely will end at 18 until the next phase of construction (see above)
- Much of the landscaping and streetscaping has been lost/value engineered (due to operating costs to maintain landscaping, objections from roads department, etc.)
- Streetscaping appears to be more generic to Calgary, than unique to Marda Loop
adamyyc
Active Member
It'll be so nice to see those Enmax lines buried, even if it is only to 18th.
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
I listened to the presentation last night on and off as I was in the middle of something else so thank you for the summary.
I've mentioned this elsewhere but 34/22 and 34/20 should've been traffic circles with raised crossings (like they did around 34/19). 34/20 especially because traffic tends to come from all directions fairly evenly.
Unfortunately, this means the rendering for Harrison (still on Sarina's website...) will never be. The building sits much higher on the property that this depicts and my hope that pushing the sidewalk to the curb would give us the land scaping and 'wood' features is dead.
Finally, one interesting feature about the section on 33 WB between 19 and 20 is the curb extension for the bus stop.
The 33/22 intersection is improved-ish. Eliminating parking in front of the tin building should help drivers get to Crowchild. It's funny they sell the lack of a turn on to 22 NB as a positive that will help traffic flow; it will, until a driver gets to 21 and 20 where where it will backup because of people turning left to go north on 21 and 20. Moving the backup from the apron off of Crowchild to between 22 and 20, where your retail is. Nothing like idling vehicles in traffic and cars going around left turning vehicles to bring some atmosphere to the area. BUT if the poor moving traffic gets people on a bus or better yet to bike/walk to the area then yay traffic!
I've mentioned this elsewhere but 34/22 and 34/20 should've been traffic circles with raised crossings (like they did around 34/19). 34/20 especially because traffic tends to come from all directions fairly evenly.
For those that don't know, during construction 33 and 34 will become one-way (33 WB and 34 EB). I actually think car travel through the area will improve because of this and reinforce bad travel habits. After construction, the slowdown to single-lane, left/right turning and straight lanes will be quite jarring to drivers looking to go through the area.
Unfortunately, this means the rendering for Harrison (still on Sarina's website...) will never be. The building sits much higher on the property that this depicts and my hope that pushing the sidewalk to the curb would give us the land scaping and 'wood' features is dead.
Finally, one interesting feature about the section on 33 WB between 19 and 20 is the curb extension for the bus stop.
CBBarnett
Senior Member
Thanks for the summary.
The bump-out is great and should be standard for all routes - a bus should never have to wait to merge back into traffic. 1st Street SW added just one of these for Route 6 in the Beltline and it's so much faster than previously for a really simple change. Unfortunately I don't see a bump-out in the EB direction in this diagram above which is disappointing and will result in transit delays.
I do find that mid-block location kind of weird for the bus stop WB - typical best practice is to put the bus stop just after the signal so you aren't forcing the bus to stop potentially twice - at the red light and at the stop - here's an article and study that discusses ideal bus stop locations. Being closer to the intersection makes it easier for passengers to continue in either direction. from their online main street diagram:
I am assuming something made them put the bus stop mid-block instead of the far side - is it just waiting for redevelopment?
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
The thing you may be forgetting is route 7 goes south on 20th. The stop after 20th would be fine for the 22, but not the 7.
You could've done, as you say, what they did on 1St SW and do the curb extension closer to the intersection. The 7 stops just before 13 Ave on 1St SW. They actually did exactly as you describe for the stop just east of 20th (the number 12 in the picture). Wonder what the thinking is there?!
CBBarnett
Senior Member
Ah thanks - forgot about the 7 how it turns, that explains it. They wanted a bus stop for both, then had to pull it back from the intersection a bit so the 7 can make the turn.
I didn't explain this well. The part they should be bumping out is circled in red here, which is in front of the Shoppers building. If this concept is accurate, this design creates a merging conflict for both Route 7 and 22 east bound so both buses would be regularly delayed by the stream of EB vehicles. The WB stop discussed above won't have this issue as cars would wait for the bus:
adamyyc
Active Member
There is a proposed bus stop for the southbound 7 bus on 20 St south of 34 Ave, so theoretically, the westbound stop at 20 St and 33 Ave could have been moved to the west side of the intersection and just served the 22 bus with minimal impact to 7 riders.
adamyyc
Active Member
I wondered the same thing. There isn’t much of a curb extension on the SW corner either, so we’re likely to continue to have eastbound drivers going around vehicles turning left at this intersection.
I think the lack of curb extension on the SE corner likely has to do with the right hand turning radius of buses (i.e., the 7). They’d likely have to move the bus stop further east if they wanted a curb extension, at the expense of parking (which is fine by me but not acceptable to many).
YYCguy
Active Member
Would it necessarily be a bad thing to retain one way traffic on 33rd and 34th avenues? I avoid the area now because traffic and parking are horrendous! Perhaps making these two avenues one way might help with that?
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
I think this is it exactly, if you've ever taken the 7 you know the turn from 14St SW on to 12 Ave is a bit too tight and that curb ages every other day when the bus drives over it.
Depends what your perspective/goal is for the area. To drive through the area, one ways are best but that would make turning them into 'Main Streets' pointless. Parking right in front of where you want to go might be horrendous, but there are numerous parking options off the street (behind the strip mall on the SW corner of 33 and 20, in the strip mall on the NW corner of 33 and 20, in the lot beside the Odeon, behind the strip small at 33 and 19, and there's also the Safeway parking lot). It's weird people will go to a mall, park once, and walk to where they're going but in a situation like this that's similar they say there's no parking.
CBBarnett
Senior Member
Marda Loop area really hasn't even tried some of the basics yet for parking management - there's no zones, no on-street pay parking. It's actually probably the fastest growing, most urbanizing part of the city without any on-street paid parking. Bridgeland, Edmonton Trail, Centre Street, Kensington all have paid parking on their main streets and are outside the core.
The neighbourhood surrounding is extremely well parked where most homes have 2 car garages and alley access which preserves the street parking, and most condos have underground parking. From past visits, Marda Loop has signs of the free parking problem everywhere - many houses use their garage for free storage and park on the street or in the alley. With no price signals to create a cost for storing your vehicle on public property, people abuse it everywhere.
It's poor parking management, not supply that's the issue - except for supply in the big picture sense that no popular urban place can ever build "enough" parking to overcome the space inefficiency inherent of private vehicle transportation in dense cities.
I would take a guess that lots of this comes back to the local loud myopic views that misdiagnose everything and resist change everywhere - paying for parking is blasphemous, it's all these new developments that are the problem, no new development and more parking is the only solution etc. If Marda Loop had setup paid parking a decade ago and redirected the money to the streetscape improvements, we not only would no longer have a "parking problem" we might have even seen a more ambitious main streets build out today. Kensington's improvements a decade ago were partially paid for by parking revenue if I recall correctly.
potatopizzafan
Active Member
The SW corner of that intersection appears to have a big bump out
There's also a large public parking area in the parkade of the odeon. I feel like no one know about it until about a year ago
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
People really do think they're entitled to use the street as their private parking space.
I'd say the number one thing people lose their mind about in the Marda Loop Community Association area is parking. Permit/paid parking would go a long way to giving clarity to residents and visitors.
People are losing their minds about a 5 unit townhome each with their own basement nanny/in-laws/student suite. It's proposed for 20th St and 50th Ave. Having 10 units on a corner lot with no street parking because of the odd intersection layout and cycle track/bus stop on 20th, is pushing people to their limits. How many of those 5 basement units will have a car is hard to predict. If each unit has one car that's 10 cars looking for parking, 5 can go in the garages, leaving 5 looking for street parking that's either on 50th or 49th. Not accounting for people visiting the people in those units or any of those units having a second car. People make these arguments and get traction because, like you say, people think they're entitled to use the street as their private parking space. They're not. I've commented on the application, in defense of it. I hope if you're in favour of density and not worried about having to walk 50ft to get to your parked car you too will also comment. Can't have all the comments be negative.
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